Real Science is Internal Search for Truth

Good evening to all of you. Thank you for coming to this evening. And I'll try to explain briefly my journey. As Pushkar said, I was born in an atheistic country, in an atheistic family, and I didn't believe in God at all. I was programmed as a child that there is no God, and I was preparing myself to become a scientist. I entered Moscow State University, which was the best and the biggest university in the former Soviet Union. And I started studying chemistry, biochemistry, molecular biology. I entered my postgraduate studies and started working on my PhD. But during that time, the dissatisfaction was growing very profoundly within myself. I was not really satisfied with the methodology of the science. the standard approach of the science is reductionism the science is trying to reduce life to chemistry chemistry to the laws of physics the laws of physics ultimately to the mathematics and this is according to the modern science's life that basically everything is governed by logical mathematical laws. This reductionism is a very deeply rooted methodology in the science. They are trying to study something which is studyable, so to speak. To investigate something which they can investigate. And the simpler it is, the better it is. I was doing my PhD degree trying to understand how the chromosomes are formed by the combination of DNA and histone special proteins which compress the information of the DNA but to study the life I had first to kill you know I would take a little poor rat killed this rat took the liver from the rat completely smashed the liver then destroyed all the cells in this liver then destroyed the little nucleus in the cells of the liver then could get this DNA protein complex study it and after studying it I would say this is life first I have to kill it on a number of you know number of times to completely destroy everything and then I say this is life something was wrong with this with this approach you know the approach which is trying to reduce life to chemistry chemistry to physics, physics to mathematics which is a universal approach and there were so many other inconsistencies in the science especially in regard to the origin of life. The modern science says that the origin of life is completely by chance you know nothing special happened just you know there was some sort of primordial soup and in this soup something happened and then here we are. You know it didn't sound very scientific to me because the probability of creating even one molecule of protein by chance is basically zero. What to speak about the probability of creating the living cell and not only living cell but the human body which consists of few trillions of living cells. It's completely unrealistic theory which doesn't have any explanation. And I was trying, very honestly I was trying to investigate into this. And I could understand that the basic premises of science are not so scientific. there is a strong element of belief which is there behind basic fundamental premises of science, of biology less so of chemistry but also there and physics and of course the modern discoveries they challenge basic premises in physics very fundamental basic premises are being challenged. But of course, the further away you come from this, the more difficult it is. Anyway, so this dissatisfaction was growing, and at the same time, there was general dissatisfaction with life, with the promises of life, with the prospects which are there. I just couldn't find the deeper meaning in what is going on with me. I really wanted to do something significant, to contribute something to the humanity, but the more I was going deeper into science, the less I could understand how this really will be benefiting to the whole humanity. so there was dissatisfaction on different fronts and at this very moment when the dissatisfaction was growing and growing and growing and I was praying to somebody whom I didn't believe in please help me, I don't know what to do I'm in a very difficult situation and at this very moment a friend of mine gave me Bhagavad Gita so the turning point of my life was reading Bhagavad Gita without any understanding of Hinduism or whatever and I was not into Hinduism, believe me I never was imagining that I would be sitting in this kind of dress in Manipal and speaking about Hinduism to you I was searching for truth I was not searching for certain religion or whatever but what happened with me is that at the most exact moment of time when I needed the most I read Bhagavad Gita and while reading Bhagavad Gita I could understand that this is not something fictitious that there is some deep truth behind it and not only there is a deep truth behind it it is explained in a very rational way. Being an atheist and growing up as an atheist, I always thought that science is rational. Religion is something irrational. You need to believe it, you need to completely switch off your intelligence and then become some sort of religious fanatic. When I read Bhagavad Gita, the first thing which struck me, it's a science, it's very rational, but it's based on a completely different set of premises. a completely different set of fundamental ideas behind this and what started after that within my heart, within my mind I started comparing the scientific world view which I was quite deeply into it and the world view of Bhagavad Gita and while I was comparing with a very, you know, academic sort of an interest, I really wanted to see which one could explain the reality better. You know, the science, no doubt about it, explains certain aspects of reality, explains some causality and so many other things, but it doesn't explain the complete picture. So I was trying to see what is better and while I was trying to see it being kind of intellectually interested into this process, something else happened with me which also changed my life profoundly. Not only I became interested into Hinduism, the secret police of Soviet Union, which is called KGB, became interested in me. So this was two parallel processes which were going on. I didn't know that reading Bhagavad Gita was illegal. At that point of time, Soviet Union being completely atheistic country, the authorities of this country were very much afraid and insecure that somebody will become religious. and because my interest was growing I was trying to go deeper and deeper and deeper and the secret police was watching what I was doing and at one point they came to my research institution where I was killing rats and investigating life and they started asking me very interesting questions whether I would like to work with them and report to them and explain to them what these people who are into Hinduism are doing anyway, I don't want to go too much into details they basically told me that we will put you in prison if you will not work with us and it was a very interesting moment in my life because I was searching for truth and the external forces told me you know if you want to be if you want to have some well-being if you want to be prosperous if you want to go your career path if you want to pursue with your science and career, you have to betray this truth which you are searching for. You have to become the agent of these people. And I realized deeply within myself that I'm not prepared to do this. It was a very difficult junction in my life because I was basically trying to choose choose between the opportunity of nice life and nice career. They told me, you're a very intelligent person. You know, we know all about you and we love you. But please, become our agent. And then you can pursue your life. And, you know, I told them that I don't want to work with them. And then, leave me alone, basically. And they told me, you will regret about this. To make the long story short, I can tell you that I never regretted about this. That was the best decision I ever made. So this is in brief how it worked. You know, I got in trouble. I was interrogated. I was not really tortured, but psychologically I was definitely tortured by these people. They ultimately stopped my scientific career, but I was internally very happy that it takes place in my life because I felt more and more profoundly satisfied with the truth which I was investigating and which I'm still investigating by going this path. So this is in brief. It's your resilience, your toughness that you are explaining such a hard story. People who know what KGB is might be knowing how much they would have troubled you. Because me, I am really interested in history and I keep on watching historical movies. I know how KGB tortures and how they do. Big round of applause for him. Explaining such a hard story in such a similar language. So now let's move to our next question that is, Why do bad things happen to good people? Like from a scientific and a spiritual perspective, how do you interpret or make sense of the challenges and adversities that people face in their lives? This is a very common question and actually this is the reason why most people become atheists. Actually, Charles Darwin, who was brought in a religious family, his father was a priest, Christian priest, he became an atheist exactly on this grounds, because he saw that there are some bad things which are happening to good people and he couldn't make rational explanation, give rational explanation to this. So that's actually the number one reason for atheism to exist in this world. But the whole question is based on the wrong premise. The question is based on the premise that this world is created to make us happy. This world is not created to make us happy. This world is created by God to learn, to make us learn something. You know, like this Manipal University or this KMC or whatever, it's not created to make you happy. Perhaps you already noticed it, right? The purpose behind this creation is not to make you happy. the purpose to create this whole institution is to make you learn something and learning studying something is not an easy thing you know exam is not a happy event you know you have to work hard, you have to really sweat you have to be very nervous and stressed out but you gain something from going through these difficulties. So people who think that this world is created for us to be happy, they cannot figure out how good God can create a world which makes us suffer. But this world is created by God to help us learn something. So it's a big school. And if in a school everything is just peachy and rosy and there is no hardship and you know, everyone is trying to please you, will you learn anything? No, you will just, you will learn how to eat pizza. Not much more than this. So, but this world and this university is to make you learn something. and for that hardship is good. Hardship actually, you know, if you look back into your life, you will understand that the most difficult periods of life gave you much more than the, you know, so-called happy periods of your life. You learned more under the pressure. You learned more under the difficulties. And moreover, the difficulties which are coming is a result of our mistakes. You know, that's another approach to the same question. You know, we make mistakes, and to correct our mistakes, the difficulties come. And difficulties actually is the indication that you're doing something wrong. Something is wrong with you, and you should change something. So this question, it's difficult to answer from this angle of vision that this world is created to make us happy. This world is created to make us understand some deeper truths. And for that, hardships and difficulties are good. and many people who went through these difficulties they would, looking back, they will never exchange these difficulties for anything else because they know that they became much more enriched and much more wealthy spiritually much deeper as the person much more, you know, harmonious as a person due to these difficulties So if we face difficulty, it means we are doing something wrong. Or doesn't it mean like we are doing something or we are moving towards something? Imagine like I'm doing something, some big thing that I planned, and then I face difficulties. In that I am feeling. So isn't it an indication that I am growing? Not necessarily. Difficulties not necessarily always mean that you are doing something wrong. It may mean that you are doing something wrong. it may mean that you have to work harder. You know, this is not an easy place. And Krishna, you know, God who created this world, He never says that I created this world for you to become happy. In Bhagavad Gita, Krishna says, Dukhalayamashashvatam, this is not a happy place. It's a place of learning. Okay, then I should change my perspective towards the world. It's a place of learning, it's a school, not a place where I'm like, it's not a place to make me happy. Yeah. Thank you. Next. So the next section was actually about KJP, but you explained it briefly. Like, what is your approach to our failures? Like, when we fail, some sad facts come to us, you instantly feel like giving up, or many thoughts come like why this is happening to me, oh I'm not good enough, not worthy enough, maybe I'm not that intelligent. So as a scientist, as a spiritualist, how do you approach failure and what advice you will give us? Failure is a relative concept. Something which you consider failure is only failure because you have some understanding of what is success and according to this mark of what success is, this is a failure. But if we understand that life is a process and life is a process of going from, you know, to achieve ultimately some goals, then the failure is actually just a stage in our life which may be necessary for us to become closer to goal. You know, our human understanding is that if there is some failure, it's interpreted by ourselves as something which makes us further away from goal. But Thomas Edison, if I'm not wrong, the one who invented the electric bulb, he made thousands of attempts to create electric bulbs. and they all were failure but he said that every failure which was there was actually a stepping stone for the ultimate success he just learned what not to do failure is something which we did and which didn't work and we learn if we understand that life is a learning process failure is showing us that this is something wrong that we are not doing something right so if we see and look at failure in this light that failure is actually shows us what to do what is better approach to difficult things or whatever then it's not such a big thing you know so the positive approach is very important and this positive approach is only possible when we understand the ultimate purpose of this life. You know, the ultimate purpose of this life is not to achieve success, not to achieve material success. You know, material success is a temporary thing. The ultimate purpose of this life is to learn something. And whatever helps us to learn something is good. and failure sometimes helps us to learn something much more profoundly than so-called success you know there are so many difficult situations in everyone's life you know I don't know if you believe in astrology or not but astrology works and I know that sometimes before the exams students go to astrologers or something like this But in every chart, there are some negative planets, some negative influences are there. In fact, there are much more negative influences in every chart than the positive ones. You know, practically every, you know, Saturn is negative, Mars is negative, and Rahu is negative, Ketu is negative, Loon, which is, you know, decreasing, is negative, and Mercury most of the time is negative. Yeah, then you have Jupiter and Venus, which depends where they are. And so the negative things will be there. Negative influences will be there. Failures will be there. I'm not an astrologer, but I predict in everyone's life will be failures. You know, it's easy prediction. Next failure when you encounter, please remember my prediction. It comes true. But if we consider that this is the process of learning, then it's not really a failure, it's just some learning experience. And sometimes learning experience is positive, sometimes learning experience is negative. But learning experience is learning experience, and it's good in this sense. You said that failure is not such a big thing, actually. But as we can see, not in India, in everywhere, the societal case and addiction, all these things are increasing day by day, exponentially. So what you will comment on that, and what you will advise us or people who are going that path? Like how to deal exactly deal with this thing? Yeah, I know that a few days back there was this tragic event in Manipal which affected many people. See, panic attacks, depression, suicidal thoughts and ultimately suicides, drugs, it's all result of the stress. You know, the life of Indian student is a very stressful life. The educational system is very competitive here, and it's a very, very stressful situation. So the chronic stress, if the stress is continuous, and if it's for a long time, it inevitably brings about this sort of conditions. because, you know, the human mind has its limits. If the stress is continuous and the human mind doesn't have any relief, then this accumulated stress creates all this negativity and ultimately creates this idea that maybe I should relieve myself by committing suicide. So, let's this condition of stress is there it should be just taken for granted we cannot do anything about this we have to go through exams, we have to go through the stressful conditions but what we can do, we can change our attitude towards this we cannot eliminate it from our life it will be there, it will continue but we can change the attitude and to change the attitude basically means to change the understanding of what is failure, what is success and this is exactly what Bhagavad Gita is all about Bhagavad Gita is about this changing on the level of ego actually this sort of things is a result of the projection of our ego when we enter some university like Manipal University or when we are in the beginning of our life we create some sort of image I want to become like this we have certain hero certain you know successful person I don't know who it is in your case Anil Ambani or whatever I don't know and then you create this image and you want to become like this and because you invest so much into this image you always project this image outside you dream about this I want to become like this I want to achieve success success means this, this and this you know, success means some external measures of success this degree and that degree and this kind of money and that kind of job. So that's all fine but ultimately we have to understand that this is just an image. And if we invest too much into this image and something externally happens which destroys this image or destroys the prospects of us to create this image in reality If something like this happened, then we feel the deadly blow because this ego which I created myself, which is completely figment of imagination. I just imagined that this is the image which I want to be, this is how I become, and everyone will be envious of me and everyone will, you know, praise me. so it's just imagination it's just a game of our mind so if I'm not investing so much into my image instead of investing something into the image into the image of success the external picture of success instead of this if I work on being who I am working deeper in my studies you know taking some grounds into being rather than imagining whom I want to be then this is not so important and the stress will be less. You know, the stress is only the measurement of the difference between my condition now and the condition which I want to achieve. And we always judge ourselves by looking at ourselves from outside. You know, people look at us and we always judge ourselves by looking at ourselves with the eyes of other people. Whereas instead of judging ourselves by the real measurement, who I am, how good I am, how good person I am, how deep I am, how studious I am. Instead, we always try to, you know, enter into this game of external things. If we are established internally, then the stress will be less. Because the stress only destroys these external things, you know. So, all these suicides and depression and everything else, it's actually a result of wrong ego. if the ego will be more real I want to be who I am I want to work for the truth I want to establish myself as a truthful person inside and to have some integrity then all these things will not affect us so much and all these pressures will not become such a source of stress and because the stress is not there the depression will not come and all these crazy thoughts about committing suicides will not also come I am who I am these external things are not important it's just a recognition of my internal achievements if our emphasis is within then it becomes easier I think by now everyone might have realized that how wonderfully Prabhupada explains self-love, what is self-love and if you have some sort of self-love, you don't judge yourself that much and you do not look yourself from an outer perspective, how you think that bird will look at you, it will be less stressful and you redefine the success, failure and also that line where the stress level is only the measure, where is your success and what you are now. Wonderful. And then shifting again a little bit, you said, then let's talk about healthy life. Like, what principles do you follow to live healthy life? I guess you are 67, 68. 68. And your team, and you all look so energetic, like it's more energetic than half of the money. I can see that. When he came and talked to me, I felt that energy. I think everyone in this room can see energy in you. So what's the secret? Can you share with us? So many secrets are there. I can share all of them. I don't know if you follow all of them or not. We try our best. One very important thing is to get up early, which is sometimes difficult for people who are born in this modern environment. So Vedic scriptures, they are very emphatic about this, that we have to get up before sunrise, and for that we have to go to bed early. There is this English saying, early to bed, early to life, makes one happy, healthy and wise. So, yes, the ideal time to get up is around 5 o'clock, which is Brahma Muhurta time, when your thoughts are most profound and you are most peaceful. You know, actually this one habit to get up early will ensure that your mental condition will always remain sane. Actually all these stressful conditions, they will not touch you because you will not be so much affected by this because you will be protected by this habit of getting up earlier. So that's one natural thing and very important thing to maintain the mental health, to go to bed early and to get up early before sunrise and meditate. Besides that, you know, of course I am vegetarian for, you know, which was very rare at that time in the Soviet Union I became vegetarian when there were hardly any vegetables in in the Soviet Union, so it was very difficult for me to maintain a vegetarian diet, but nevertheless I'm, you know, many, many years, 40 plus years vegetarian, almost 50 years. Besides that, besides that, actually the main secret of maintaining health, because all the diseases are coming from the mind, mind. All the diseases have this psychosomatic origin. So you have to maintain the healthy mind and to maintain the healthy mind you have to know the purpose of your life. When you have the meaning of life, when you know the deeper meaning of life, then the mind is always happy. Because when you know the goal and you are fixed in this goal and you know that this goal is very high and worthy, then it's very easy to navigate through life, it's very easy to overcome difficulties and it's very easy to maintain the positive outlook. Because you understand this is my goal and I am approaching my goal and ultimately I am eternal. Consciousness is irreducible. You know, actually that's the most profound truth which I found in Bhagavad Gita, that consciousness is fundamental. It's irreducible. It cannot be studied by the process of reductionism, which is approached by the science. And when I became convinced that this is the fact, that consciousness is irreducible and therefore it's not a subject of death, then my life became meaningful and I realized the higher goal of my life and it makes me happy and positive and happiness from the mind manifest as an energy through the body so that's it recently I've been seeing a lot of doctors podcast and interview in that they also mentioned that waking up early at 4 35 there is some kind of hormones or something that It peaks up and at that time if you meditate or do exercise for some time your whole day will be beneficial or it will go well. I also felt that same like sometime back I think so 3-4 days I woke up at 5 and I just did some meditation and then the competition was there for us. So I went there and that day everyone in my friend group said that you are a little bit more enthusiastic than usual. You are like bubbling in energy, something like that. They said that you seem like very happy today. What happened? Something, something or something. It's normal. I don't know what happened. Then now you said that I realized, okay, I woke up at 5 a.m. That's why it was like that. Actually, it's interesting because all the modern discoveries of science, the seeds of them are there in Vedic literature. In Bhagavad Gita, this discovery about hormones and everything, it's there. You know, Bhagavad Gita says that the source of happiness, the secret of happiness in life is to be sattvic. When the sattva gun is prominent within your mind, when the mind is preeminently sattvic, when the mind has this sattvic energy within, then it's happy. Because, you know, the tamasic mind or rajasic mind is never happy. It's never satisfied. And the best way to achieve sattvic influences within your mind is to get up early. That's how it works, you know, because, you know, when you sleep, the most sattvic moments, the environment at 5 o'clock or 4.30 o'clock, the environment is saturated by sattva. and if you are awake at this moment of time you absorb this sattvic energy by your mind and by absorbing this sattvic energy by your mind which happens automatically you don't have to do anything you just have to be awake you just don't have to be sleeping if you are absorbing this energy then the mind will be saturated by this energy and this energy will be enough for the whole day and the whole day you will be relatively more happy. So this is a very scientific process. Sattva guna is coming from outside to your mind. Your mind becomes very enthusiastic and you remain happy and happiness gives your energy, physical energy as well. So it's no need to speak about hormones. You know Bhagavad Gita explains everything. believe me. But of course sometimes we need some external confirmation. Ok, so I have endless question to ask from you as a spiritualist, as a doctor, as a person from Soviet Union, as I am interested in history, but due to constrained time, I would like to offer our audience, if you have any questions, please you can ask. So I have observed one thing in Manipal that okay all the classes are going in the daytime everything is going fine but many events like majority of the events are scheduled in such a manner that it requires you to stay like it requires you to extend the firm time and awake late in the night or sometimes even it requires you to not sleep in the night. So apart of waking up early and having less sleep what is your opinion about this? like how to get energy constantly being in such kind of environment? You have to sacrifice something. Yes, people, you know, now it's the time when the rajasic energy, the passionate energy is very strong. And usually people who are passionate, they have very difficult time to go to bed early. They need to excite themselves. And therefore, so many events are scheduled late at night. But I don't think there are such compulsory events. So my advice to you would be just to sacrifice some of these events if they are not really necessary. for the sake of getting up early and living the whole next day as a happy human being instead of exciting yourself into these events. Other than this, I don't know what to say. You are a free citizen of a free country, so you have to choose. actually we have to be very clear that we are choosing our life the life which we create we create ourselves by our choices and we have to be very careful in doing choices and the example which you gave is the choice what do I want? do I want to remain happy? do I want to remain healthy in my mind? and for that I need to go to bed early and get up early or do I want to excite myself? And, you know, so that's your choice. I have, I'm practicing meditation where it is a form of practicing mindfulness. In what ways else can we practice mindfulness and be present in the moment and to know more about what is the purpose of life? Mindfulness is a good beginning point of meditation because mindfulness is when you become an observer and you put yourself in this position of being an observer and you observe what is going on in your mind and in this way you're not carried out by the constant you know bubbling of the neurons within your mind and then neurons become calmer and your mind, your brain become calmer so it's a good process I wouldn't say that this is the ultimate meditation because ultimate meditation it's something much more profound and the results of meditation are much more profound than this peacefulness which comes as a result of mindfulness mindfulness actually is a good way to relieve yourself from stress and it is recommended by Krishna in the fifth chapter of Bhagavad Gita as well when you become an observer rather than doer, you observe what is going on within your mind but ultimately you need a more profound object for your meditation. Just to become an observer and being an observer to calm down your mind is good but your calm and peaceful mind is an instrument by which you can know much more profound truths. so the calmness of the mind peacefulness of the mind is only necessary to understand who I am because when the mind is crazy when the mind is agitated when the mind is disturbed you cannot really understand who you are you cannot really even feel that I am eternal soul that I am not dying when the body will die so the object of meditation is initially to calm down the mind. The next stage of meditation is to understand deeper the reality of my consciousness. To be able to distinguish between the consciousness and the instruments of the consciousness, the processes of the consciousness. The brain is not the consciousness. It's not the generator of the consciousness. It's just an instrument of consciousness. The conscious being, living soul, is using brain. But people, including scientists, they think that consciousness is generated by the soul, by the brain. So they cannot do this. They don't have this instrument. So the calm mind, according to yoga and the philosophy of Bhagavad Gita, is an instrument which is necessary to understand deeper who you are. and then it's again a very important instrument to understand deeper the reality, how the reality works and ultimately to understand that there is super consciousness behind this world to first understand your own consciousness then understand the super consciousness so mindfulness is a good beginning point but ultimately meditation is a much more profound process and its goal is not just to make you peaceful, its goal to make you understand the higher reality. Prabhupada, for a brief, can you explain consciousness? Yeah. Actually, this is the most interesting question. In science, what is the approach of science? When the science studying some event, something, some phenomenon, it tries to reduce this phenomenon to something more fundamental. And then it studies something more fundamental, and then it tries to reduce it to something more fundamental. And when it cannot reduce certain phenomena to something else, it says this is fundamental. This is the fundamental part of reality. This is the approach. This is the standard approach of science. Certain things are fundamental. It basically means we don't question it. We just accept it. This is the reality. This is the essential feature of reality. Like for example, the science doesn't question time. Science has no idea what time is. It's just, it's there. It's fundamental. It's this letter T in all the mathematical equations. What it is, nobody knows. It's T, it's fundamental. It's irreducible to anything else. So the modern approach to consciousness is that they're trying to reduce it as the product of the brain. You know, they're trying to take the consciousness and say that the consciousness is a result or product of the neurochemical processes in the brain. And neurochemical processes in the brain the result of some chemical processes, you know, which can be studied by chemistry. and the chemistry is ultimately is based on the physical interaction of different particles so they are trying to take the conscious experience which you all have and to reduce it to the interaction of particles but ultimately they fail despite the great development of neuroscience despite of all this mapping of the mind and electromagnetic and magnetic resonance, mapping of the mind, which part of the brain is activated when you do something, they don't have an explanation of any single conscious experience. The neuroscience cannot say what does it mean that you see something which is blue. You're looking at the blue and you know, what does it mean that you as a conscious being have the experience that this little part of this bottle with the water is blue. You know, there's no explanation. They cannot bridge the gap between neurochemical activity in the brain and the conscious experience. And there are so many different theories, but even those people who are proposing these theories, they say that ultimately, you know, these theories, they say that, you know, completely hypothetically, without any proof, they say that the matter on a certain level of complexity creates consciousness. But how it can create consciousness? How you become conscious of the events of what is happening? They don't know. There's no explanation. You know, and that, all this artificial intelligence, it's all fake, because ultimately, you know, you can reproduce the electrochemical activity. You can reproduce some activity which is taking place in your brain, in 80 billion neurons in your brain, but you cannot reproduce the consciousness in a sense that I know that it's going on. Where is this I? It's nowhere. There are basically four main theories of consciousness. One of them is that the atoms themselves are conscious. That the element of consciousness is there in the atoms, and when they become very complex then the profound consciousness of a human being takes place totally ridiculous absolutely not confirmed by anything else then they say that on a certain level of complexity it appears but ultimately they don't know so there is more and more scientists really hardcore scientists who are trying to take the consciousness from a different approach they say it's fundamental it's irreducible it's not the product of the brain it's not the product of the chemistry it's as fundamental at least as fundamental as time and they're trying to you know to play the game and see what happens but it's too radical shift in the modern paradigm in the modern scientific paradigm therefore 95 or 98 percent of the scientists which are studying consciousness, they still hoping against hope that at one point we will understand what is consciousness. But still, they cannot say anything how the conscious experience comes and why it comes. But there are a few very bright scientists who say it's fundamental, it's irreducible. Let's try to look at the whole phenomenon which is there from this point of view, that consciousness is irreducible and that's actually the starting point of Bhagavad Gita. The second chapter of Bhagavad Gita, Krishna says, consciousness is irreducible. This is the fundamental part of reality and you can only understand the rest of reality if you take this as the fundamental part of reality. You are consciousness. It's not that you have the consciousness. People, they are confused. They say, I have consciousness. No, you have brain, but consciousness is you. You are the conscious being. And everything else is what you have. The brain is what you have. The eyes is what you have. This is the instrument of consciousness. But you, essentially, is the consciousness. You said this word is created to learn. So if someone is not enjoying something in this word, and if he takes this thing seriously and he takes everything as a learning, so then where will he apply all these things? So he takes the entire life to learn, and then where will he apply? See, you know, the whole life is not only learning process. You're exactly right. the life is the learning process and it also the process of applying this knowledge and by applying this knowledge if the knowledge is right the criteria for knowledge to be right is that while applying this knowledge you become happier you receive the response from the reality if something which you learned is correct. If this is the truth which you learn, you apply this truth and you receive the reaction or the payment for this and being happy. So we learn something ultimately to become happy. The ultimate result for which we are all working is to become happy. And this is something which is unquestionable. You know, you can question, why do I learn? You can question, why should I become healthy? You can question, why should I earn money? But you never question, why should I become happy? You know, happiness is something fundamental. Everything else is for you to become happy. You learn to become happy. You earn money to become happy. You enter into a relationship to become happy. But happiness is unquestionable. This is the purpose for which you exist. So we learn to apply it in life to ultimately become happy. So that's my answer to your question. There is some question. You just said that the consciousness is fundamental. You are consciousness. So are you saying it is the same as soul or these two words are different, these two concepts are different? Say it again, what is it? It's consciousness, you said consciousness is a fundamental principle. Yes. Is it the same as the concept of soul? Basically yes. Of course, when we are talking about soul, different traditions may have different ideas of what soul is. So when I am talking about consciousness, I am talking from the Vedic perspective which is very scientific. And the soul, yes, it's an atom of consciousness. According to Bhagavad Gita, the individual soul, jiva, the carrier of consciousness, of the ability to be conscious, conscious of yourself, I exist, I know that I exist, it's something which is unquestionable, I know that I exist. And to be conscious about the reality outside, that's what soul is. soul is the atom of consciousness this little atom of the energy of consciousness which makes you know that I exist and reality outside of myself, other people exist and ultimately the higher reality exists, yes that's what soul, of course if we take different religious traditions they will give different ideas of the soul therefore I didn't use the word soul since it is not clearly defined. But if we define soul as the atom of consciousness, yes, that's what I mean. So you're saying that from soul comes to consciousness? Soul is consciousness and soul is conscious. Soul is consciousness itself and soul is also... You can say that consciousness is coming from the soul, but soul is consciousness also. These two aspects are there. Two aspects, so right to say they are slightly different? When you say two aspects, then would it be right to say that they are slightly different? They are slightly different, yes. They are slightly different because you know, when I'm conscious, when we say consciousness is coming from the soul, it basically means that consciousness is the ability of the soul to be conscious of the environment, to be conscious of reality around us. But also the soul is also conscious of itself, of himself. It's like bulb, the electric bulb. The electric bulb is making the environment lighter, but it also you know it also light so that's that's dual nature of this definition of the soul yes my question is basically about stress so you mentioned that we should try to not take off too much of stress and try to leave try to leave the stress free by the hospital So in the current situation that we are facing in India, there is a lot of competition for everything, whether it be education or jobs or anything. I know. There are a lot of people and you know, it took you opportunities to fit in all those people. So there is a lot of competition and because of that, stress. So what is your advice to go about this? In the sense that if somebody loves this country, wants to be here and they face a situation situation like this. And the situation currently is such that if you are not pushing yourself beyond the limits, you are not doing enough. It's almost like that. Wherever you are, whether you are in a job or anything. We know we are good, we are really secure about ourselves. We don't want to get into the stress but external circumstances are possible to do it. Yeah, I actually explained it already, but let me explain it again in a different way. Yes, the environment is stressful, no doubt about it. But whether you take this stress or not, it's your choice in a sense that how you relate to this pressure which is there you know you if there's too much this is the advice, please try to listen very carefully because it's one million dollar advice it's a very, and I'm giving it for free and actually it's not my advice it's Krishna's advice if we too much invest our consciousness into the result I have to achieve this by all means instead of investing our consciousness into the process of achieving this result then the stress will be much more profound because we will be afraid what if I don't achieve this result what will happen if I don't achieve this mark or that mark so the stress is because we are afraid of not achieving particular result and it's coming because we are too much focused on the result not on the process itself Actually, if we are focused on the process itself, it's much more productive and efficient to achieve the result. And if we are happy of this process of investing our consciousness into the process of achieving results, the chances of us achieving results are much more. And we are less stressed. you know, we are afraid and stressed because what if I don't get this mark what if I don't achieve this degree what if I don't, you know forget about it do what you want enjoy what you are doing try to go deeper into this you will achieve the result how you cannot achieve the result you will achieve the result but if you always compare if you always programmed and measure your success by this result, then you will always be stressful. The more you are concentrated on the result, the less you are concentrated on the process, the more you are stressed. So the environment is stressful because it forces us to concentrate on the results. But it's our choice on which we focus our consciousness, on the result or in the process. So if we enjoy the process of studying, You know the exams will not be as stressful. If you only want to get marks then it will be very stressful. Thank you. It was just an observation or a thought which just happened between the conversation which which happen right now. The term scientific when it comes, the talk what you gave, the advice what you gave this right now was really applicable and able to understand, take that and able to applicable in the everyday existing process. I have utilized that, gained fruit of it, utilizing it. But when it comes to the word of scientific, in the modern education is what thought to us is which is measurable is which is defined as scientific but I know very clearly what the explanation is given right now in front of me I am able to feel it and that is giving a benefit but how do we tell this or justify it is a scientific that is the question because we are in an academic position position where every student or faculty who come here in an academic situation it can be a science and technology. We have to run our race in next era based on the scientific findings and publications or for the helping for the society itself. So meanwhile, so but how should they say everything is scientific evidence we have to get into. So in this point I am confused on how to bridge this. What you gave the explanation to this mother right now was soothing to me. But what I, the next door, I mean I can't go out of this door, all things come out, what I am going to do for the next publication. This is a reality. Where it comes to scientific experience. How do I bridge this? Science means you do the experiment and you judge the results. So the advice which I gave, as you said, is very practical and applicable. You can try it and see the results. Now, this approach which is very common now, and I'm grateful to you for saying this approach. Everything is just measured and everything is quite mechanically measured. you know, this achievement and that achievement and you know you are basically it's coming from a very long standing tradition as I said it's this tradition of reductionism ultimately they want to reduce human being unique human being, beautiful human being conscious human being to the number of achievements this is your grades, this is your marks this is the number of your papers, this and that. You know, it's a wrong approach. You are a unique, beautiful living entity. And the more you manifest your uniqueness and your beauty, the more you will be happy. And ultimately the external results, marks and the papers and everything else will also come. so the emphasis is wrong when we emphasize and I'm also grateful to you for making this observation that you're saying something and something internally says it's true but I cannot prove it scientifically quote unquote I cannot measure it, I cannot show, you know make some tool and say see this is the this is the number, this is the thing. You know, we do have the organ, the instrument inside ourselves, which says, this is true, this is not true. This is what I felt when I read Bhagavad Gita. I really felt inside, this is true, I don't know how it is true. I don't know why I think it is true, but there is some truth and I feel it. And then I tried to investigate, and then I tried to apply it in my life, and then I was completely convinced. but this immediate ability to understand this is truth is there and we should trust it I mean it's not absolute, there are some conditions this and that but ultimately we do as living entities as conscious living beings we do have this instrument yes I know it's true let's try to investigate and see how it is true but what I want to say is that you know all the measures which are the measurable standards which are being applied to you from the external world, you will achieve it. If you emphasize your internal growth, like this club is called Evolve, if you emphasize your evolution, your internal evolution, if you emphasize your uniqueness as an individual, which is not reducible to the numbers and achievements. Believe me, it's all bogus. It's all baloney. It's not true. You know, you are much more than all these achievements. But the achievements will be there. You will not escape them. Or if you escape them, then you don't need them. This is not the source of happiness. People think that, you know, I need to achieve this, and if I achieve this, I become happy. And they achieve this, and they don't become happy. They achieve all the marks and measures, and then they commit suicide. You know, sometimes they commit suicide before that, sometimes they commit suicide after that. But it's all useless, because it's not what will make you happy. What will make you happy is internal peace Clarity of your mind Understanding that you are following the right path Your internal integrity Your honesty in dealing with others Deep relationship Which you will be able to enter By being a good person This is what will make you happy. Not all these measures, not all these papers. You know, don't judge yourself, you know, let them judge yourself by this. No problem. And you will get good marks. But we should not judge ourselves by these measurements. We are more than this. We are not this. Can we then take this consciousness, can be non-scientific, but it is reality and true. and true. Can we categorize it this way? Of course, of course, of course. It may not be scientific. It is very scientific. The best scientists, they are more and more inclined to understand that consciousness is fundamental, because they know that reductionism failed in the matter of consciousness. So it's very scientific. It's just not the scientific paradigm of the moment, but But you know the scientific paradigm always shifts and it will become. It's too much radical shift for the modern minds. But I have no doubts, I have no trace of a doubt that it will become an accepted scientific paradigm. So it is scientific. Consciousness is fundamental. As of now we cannot tell or say in a way what right now scientific things are told in modern education. But as of now, as I understand it, it gives me peace and that's the reality, truth. But as you said, maybe in the future scientific understanding will change and then we all will consider it to be a scientific. See, we should not... There is science and there is bureaucracy which is sometimes called science. Real science, it has nothing to do. Real science is the search for truth. Real science has nothing to do with all these papers and all this stuff. It's all just, you know, there are people now who employ artificial intelligence, AI, to write papers. And they publish these papers in a good reviewed magazines. It's not science. Science is your internal search for truth. and if you are devoted to this search for truth it will manifest externally one way or another so this is the science this is the real thing so we should become scientists in a real way and we should not be pushed into this understanding what is science according to all these external achievements anyway I understand that there is reality we have to conform the reality but there are limits to which we should confirm the reality you know there are certain limits yes we can confirm the reality but we also have to be true to real reality within ourselves within our heart thank you just this reminds me of something that I read few days back or heard I don't know, I don't remember actually that when science will reach at its top, it will find spirituality already sitting here or something. And I also heard that you are a scholar of Sanskrit. So if you can speak few lines in Sanskrit as an ending remark for us, it would be great. Since I was talking about Bhagavad Gita, since my whole journey into spirituality started with Bhagavad Gita, I will quote a verse from Bhagavad Gita. which encapsulates the essence of Bhagavad-Gita. This is one of the last verses of Bhagavad-Gita, actually it's the ultimate verse which Krishna speaks in Bhagavad-Gita, the verse before the last one, and it's very simple. So this is the verse before the last one. The last one is And in these two verses, Krishna, the author and the speaker of Bhagavad Gita, he explains the essence of the whole book. And if we reduce this whole book into one verse, or into one line of this one verse, or actually into two words of the first line of the verse which I just quoted, then the essence of Bhagavad Gita is manmana, which basically means think about me. try to concentrate and to meditate on the super consciousness which is behind this world, which has created this world, this beautiful creation. So that's the essence of Bhagavad Gita and this is the ultimate request or actually request or even the prayer of Krishna, manmana. If you want to become happy, and everyone wants to become happy, if you want to achieve something, if you want to have meaning in your life, then remember these two words, manmana, think about me. Try to think about the higher reality behind this world. not to be deceived by the external reality of this world. Try to think about God, about Krishna, by chanting his names. And then, ultimately, you will come to the proper place. He will guide you. He says, if you do this, then I will protect you. Moksha-siyami-mashu-chaha I will, don't be stressed. don't be depressed no need to be into this stressful condition I will take care of you so manmana bhava mad bakto think about me ultimately become devoted to me do something for me and I will protect you so that's my final concluding remarks thank you thank you sir Thank you.