Meeting with English Speaking Disciples

Namo Vishnu Padaya Krishna Pristaya Bhutale Sri Mata Bhaktivedanta Swami Niti Namine Namaste Sarasvati Devi Gauravani Pracarine Nirviseise Sunnya Vadi Paschatyadeesha Tarine Vanchakalpataru Veshchakripa Sindhu Deva Chapatita Nam Pavanibhyo Vaishnevibhyo Namo Namaha Jai Sri Krishna Chaitanya Prabhunityananda Siedvaita Gdādhara Sivasadhi Gaurabhakta Vrinda Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare Yantakh praviṣya mamavācim mamā prasūptam sanjīvaya takila shakti dara svadhamna anyamśca hasti-caranāśramanāt vāgādhim pranānnama bhagavate purushāya tūbhyam swasyas tu viśvāsya kalāḥ prasīdatam dhyāntu bhūtāni śivam mitodhīya Manascha Badram Bajatata Doksa Jaya Aveshyetam Noam Atir Atyahay Tukhi I'm very happy to greet all of you for this session. I will speak a few words as an introduction to our association, and then you can ask your questions. The topic about which I think a lot lately is how the presentation of Krishna consciousness as a science is different from the presentation of Krishna consciousness as a religion. There is no doubt about it that Krishna consciousness, its practices, its liturgy, its rituals and everything else has religious connotations. and it can be taken strictly as a religion. And perhaps it's not wrong, but at the same time, Śrīla Prabhupāda was stressing completely different presentation or idea behind Krishna consciousness, saying that this is the science of God. Of course, you can probably make a case that in any existing religions there is also this aspect where they are trying to understand God from the point of view of truth. But at the same time I don't think that any religion claims so strongly that this is science, that this is not religion per se. And I think there are many important reasons why Srila Prabhupada was insisting on this understanding of Krishna consciousness. It's a philosophy which gives you a philosophical and metaphysical framework of understanding how the nature works, how the reality works. Not just nature, not just material nature, but how the reality works. so sometimes Srila Prabhupada called Krishna consciousness as a whole as science of God sometimes he was more specific in this regard and he was saying that it's Sambandha Jn is the science of God the scientific presentation of reality What is absolute truth? What is the nature of consciousness? The absolute consciousness, the consciousness of God, relative consciousness, which is the consciousness of living entities. But whatever approach we adopt, in any case, Srila Prabhupada wanted to stress this point, emphasize this point. And what we can see with quite alarming tendencies is that more and more we are presenting religion as a Krishna consciousness as a religion. The main difference between religion and science is the level of responsibility a practitioner takes upon himself. when you are a member of religious organizations, you have to take certain responsibilities, you have to pay certain amount, you know, you have to come on Sundays, you have to do some rituals. But ultimately, the result is some miracle which is supposed to happen at the end of your life or which actually may happen even before that, that you are somehow rather saved. The trick of religion is that any religion promises that whoever is a member and whoever agrees to follow certain rules, minimum rules of this particular religion, is already saved no matter what. He can do horrendous things in his life. He can do some horrible things. But because he is the member of this religion and because this religion is so powerful and the founder of this religion is so benevolent and merciful, He is saved just by the mere fact that he is the member of this particular religious denomination. Whereas the science explains how the process of liberation works. Why we are suffering in this world. What is the reason? What we are supposed to do to free ourselves from suffering? and how everything which we do in Krishna consciousness contributes to the process of liberation, how it ultimately scientifically brings about this salvation. And therefore, Śrīla Prabhupāda didn't even use so much the word salvation, salvation because the very world salvation implies that there is some mystical kind of intervention which is supposed to take place in the science the role of this mystical intervention is much less mostly the science is concerned with the practitioners to understand properly how the process works. And therefore, if we take religion, then the emphasis will be on the end result, which is salvation. Whereas if we take science, the emphasis is not so much on the result, The emphasis is on the process. Scientific understanding or approach to spiritual practices will stress again and again and again, please do it properly. The result depends on the process. The result is, of course, there is a miraculous element in our understanding as well, but it's much less because Silla Prabhupada and all our acaryas, they stressed the need for us to execute the process of Krishna consciousness properly. And therefore, if we take the original writings of our Acharyas, we can see how painstakingly Śrīla Jīva Goswami, for example, or even Śrīla Rūpa Goswami explained the process. And the main Acharya of Aosam Pradaya, the founder Acharya, Adhi Acharya of Aosam Pradaya is Rūpa Gosvami, who is Abhideyācārya. He plays such a significant role because he explained in all minute details the process of Krishna consciousness, how it works and what we're supposed to do and why we're supposed to do what we're supposed to do. It's very interesting because in Bhakti Rāsāmrita Sindhu, while explaining the process of Krishna consciousness, the 64 different angas of our Abhideya, of the process of Krishna consciousness, he gives examples from different Puranas mostly. He illustrates each and every anga of devotional service, each and every limb of devotional service by quotations from the Puranas. but if it is all explained in the Puranas, what is the need of writing Bhakti-rasamblita-sindhu, if the whole Bhakti process is there? But the difference is that, yes, he takes the illustrations and the statements of the Puranas, but he puts it into the very scientific, rationally understandable framework and in this way gives the different foundation to the religion of Puranas. Otherwise, yes, we can treat Krishna consciousness as some sort of bhakti, as the religion based on mostly Puranas, because Puranas is the real foundation, not so much Vedas and Upanishads, but mostly Puranas is the foundation of our religion. But again, as I said, no, religion is different, science is different. And in my humble opinion, the tragic historical events which took place shortly after Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's disappearance from this world, when his philosophy, his scientific understanding of the process of bhakti, His treatment of bhakti as a scientific category was completely distorted by different sahajiya movements, what we call now sahajiya, who again reintroduced into the religion of Lord Chaitanya a lot of unnecessary mysticism and so many other elements which ultimately completely distorted or substituted the whole idea of Lord Chaitanya's movement and bring it down to the level of some mystical or pseudo-mystical cults. So, and there are some other very grave consequences which may not be visible immediately when we do this substitution, when we start treating Krishna consciousness as religion. Recently I had a conversation with one Indian brahmachari and he told me a very amazing, amusing story that he approached one temple president and suggested that he would give a seminar on Harinam Chintamani on the science of chanting, offenseless chanting which is again described by Bhaktivinoda Thakur in great details. And the temple president was extremely against this idea. He said no no there is no need because you will just disturb the face of our congregation. So how is it the foundational book of one of our Acharyas can disturb the faith of the congregation if we study deeply. There is something wrong with this kind of faith which is supposed to be disturbed by studying the book of one of our teachers, one of our gurus. So, but again, as I said, this process is going on already and it's an alarming tendency to turn Krishna consciousness into some sort of mystical cult or yeah, whatever, whatever it is. Organized religion. Yes, organized religion is another good term for this. Yes, there are a lot of implications, very practical implications, in the difference of this understanding. One very practical implication is how we... What is our emotional reaction towards some... What is our understanding of sin? You know, if we take religion, religion basically is usually founded on this very strong fear of sin and sinful reactions. with a lot of condemnation of sin and you will go to hell and you will burn in hell for a long time and you will suffer for a long time. This is one sort of understanding which is promoted by religion. But then as a flip card, you know, there is a different side of the same coin. We can see this in the history of religions. Initially, you know, religious institutions, since Jagadish mentioned about organized religion, They used this tool or this instrument as the instrument of power, how to influence people by instilling fear into them. And, you know, this is how religions were basically ruling the world, especially I'm talking about the Western history, the history of Western religion. religious institutions were extremely powerful without having any instruments of power. But the main instrument of power which they had in their hands was this fear of the suffering in the next life or in life after death. But then what happens again, if we look carefully into the history of religion, after centuries of terrorizing people by this completely denigrating fear of sin, usually the opposite process takes place. and there are some reformation movements and these reformation movements come and they say, you know, oh, this is all rubbish. You know, there is no need to fear all these sinful reactions. Our Savior is the most merciful Savior. No matter what you do, you are already saved by His grace. So from complete 100% fear of sin, religion sometimes flip-flops, turns around 180 degrees and becomes some sort of salvation movement with indulgence. you know you can just indulge whatever you like, do whatever you like just pay a little contribution to the church and everything will be okay don't worry your very nice and cool place in heaven is reserved for you so but there is a completely different understanding of this particular concept if we treat, you know, religion or Krishna consciousness in our case as the science of God. We are not trying to manipulate people by instilling fear into them, but we're explaining how it works, why certain things are prohibited and, you there are degrees of gravity of some things which are prohibited. Some are very strictly prohibited because they give very strong, they affect very strongly our consciousness in a negative way. some things are less important like traditionally you know when the devotees they give the vow during initiation they say you know no intoxication including tea and coffee that's correct tea and coffee certainly intoxications. But it's a minor thing and it's not that important. And if you're not doomed, if you sometimes drink a cup of tea, or only if you become addicted to this thing, then it definitely is very detrimental for your consciousness and it's it's definitely artificial thing there is no doubt about it I'm not trying to justify that you should do it but what I want to say is that it's definitely not the same thing as taking some hard drugs or whatever and we have to understand how it works and why this prohibition is there like sometimes also you know Silla Prabhupada said that we shouldn't eat onion, but there are a couple of historical incidents when he pushed his disciples to eat onions when they came to some Indian home and the host would give them some food with onion. Prabhupada didn't make a big deal out of it. And for him it would be much bigger transgression to offend the host by making a fuss and creating some big noise that you gave us some food with onion, rather than eating a little onion, which is definitely tamasic and which is not good because it brings tamasic energy into our consciousness. So, as I said, this is again very practical implication of how we are, what is our attitude towards our practices and rules and prohibitions. Again, please don't misunderstand me. I am not now trying to advocate that we should be very lax. No, we should be very strict in following all the rules and regulations. But we also have to understand what is the science behind all these rules and regulations and not just become some religious bio-robots who follow everything but don't understand why they follow, what is the point of their following. Yeah, and we all know how the religion, with the religious approach, tends to turn into some very, how to say, very strict and not necessarily exploitive enterprise, but, you know, turns into some sort of very heartless enterprise or institution. You just do it, do it, do it, do it. If you don't do it, you are completely doomed and there is no place for you among the civilized people. So, you know, again, this is not the ideal of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and Rupa Goswani. They again and again and again stress the point that whatever we do, we do to facilitate our remembering of Krishna. And whatever we avoid doing is again to facilitate or to help us to remember Krishna, which is only possible when our heart is soft, when our heart is inclined to do something good to other people. Again, this is a little introduction about this topic. It's a huge topic. There are so many different aspects of these two concepts. They are quite different between each other. I just wanted to touch it because this is something which I'm thinking about nowadays. Okay, so that's it. I don't know if it resonates with you or not. Yeah, thank you, Dormarash. I think definitely resonates with you. So, even, I am present, I am also seeking information, which is a very good thing. And it's very easy to turn into, from the seeker of the truths, usually because Krishna consciousness is not yet a traditional religion, although it's quite advanced on this path. But because it's not exactly traditional religion yet, people who join Krishna consciousness, they are mostly seekers of the truth. They want to find the truth through this process. But what I see, the people who sincerely were seeking truth, When they found the truth in Krishna consciousness, very quickly they can be transformed into some religious bio-robots, who are not seeking the truth anymore. They think that they already found the truth, the truth is already theirs. It's theirs by definition. And then they act in a different way. So this sort of negative transformation sometimes we can see taking place with the devotees. And we should definitely try to avoid it as much as possible. We should be reminded again and again and again that Krishna consciousness is the science of God, science by which we can find the truth. Guru Maharaj, what would you suggest practically? How we can do that? Because I also see myself at some point and some devotees, that they are entering in beer with so much inspiration, and they're really trying to find God. But then at some point, you know, there is a society, there is a community, and then in the community everything is pushing you towards, like, okay, you just have to follow it like this, and be like that. And then, what to do? See, you know, there is definitely an element of social pressure, and social pressure is a very strong influence, very strong force in our life, there is no doubt about it. But it doesn't mean that we have to succumb to this pressure. Yes, the prevailing culture, when we enter into some society, in any society there is a very strong element of subconscious element. collective subconscious. And in a religious society, sometimes it's called a Gregor or whatever it is, by joining some religious society, we become, you know, we become influenced by not only conscious things, but by all these subconscious ideas which are floating around, which are shared by majority of people. And because we want to comply with the rules of the society, we start doing this sometimes not even completely consciously. And we subscribe to those ideas which are not necessarily there in the books, which are not necessarily even spoken. There are so many things which we subscribe to, even though nowhere Śrīla Prabhupāda speaks about this. Or sometimes he speaks about it, but doesn't make a big deal out of it. But all of a sudden, all these points become the major philosophical points, the foundational points. So what to do with this social pressure? But it's not only social pressure, as I said. because social pressure is there, but there is much more influence in a sense of this collective subconscious influence. And there is only one way to resist to this collective subconscious or to any subconscious ideas is to bring them to the level of consciousness. to be aware of them and to estimate them from the rational point of view, from the point of view of philosophy. So, on a practical level, it basically means that we should be very careful about studying the scriptures, the original scriptures, the words of our founder and the original scriptures, the words of our previous Acharyas, and maintain the level of consciousness which is required by being a member of Krishna consciousness society. It's implied because we are supposed to be conscious, being the member of Krishna consciousness. So the remedy from this malady, from this disease is only one, is to study scripture and of course find the society of devotees, the Sangha of devotees, which are geared for finding the truth, not geared to comply the rules of a particular society or organization, social rules. Okay, thank you Guru Maharaj for this explanation. So we will start with the questions now. Basically, I am just going on the list. So, Balaram Pranaprabhu, I think my question is a good one to kind of do the entry because it speaks about what you should ask. Hare Krishna, I hope my song is clear and there is more echo. Yeah, it's good. Hare Krishna, there are three more people there with you. Actually, thanks to my wife. Hare Krishna. Hare Krishna, I thought it was an open invitation for some devotees in Samarajaram, so they were happy to join us. Thank you again for the amazing introduction. It really raises some other thoughts, but I will stick to the question I sent to the Gadish Prabhu. I was reading actually a book which we were assigned to read last year in the Pramana platform, and a point I also mentioned last year in a meeting, that a disciple should be inquisitive, otherwise it is said, I am paraphrasing Prabhupada from his small book that Raja Vidya, the King of Noreg, where he is saying one may have a good spiritual master, but if the disciple is not inquisitive, then it's kind of a pity for the disciple. So I was wondering like this inquisitiveness, which is based upon always, especially from Bhagavad Gita, Parishrana, and Sattvajit Praneetha, and Sattvajit Praneetha, So this inquisitiveness sometimes, I think it's not, it's simply not there, not present. Not in my daily life, and not after hearing an amazing lecture like Bayou. And I was wondering why do these questions simply don't come up sometimes, with a sign of improper hearing, that you are simply distalced, did not selfless? What is the reason for this? Thank you very much for this question. It's exactly on the same topic here. Krishna says, Paripraṣṇena. Paripraṣṇena means not just the questions. The question is Praṣṇā. Paripraṣṇā means very thorough, methodical questions when we are trying to understand the topic to the minutest details. Pari means 360 degrees. That's what the prefix Pari means. So we have to, you know, again and again and again hammer or ask the questions. And the reason is that sometimes why the questions don't appear because we accepted religious philosophy or whatever the scriptures as dogmas. And dogmas you are not supposed to question. Dogmas you just accept dogmas and there is nothing to ask about the dogmas. That's it. In fact, if you ask something about dogmas, you will become heretical. And oftentimes it is like this. We accepted certain dogmas. We don't ask why it is like this. Because it's a mauvais tone. It's a bad tone to ask these questions. Why? Because you may betray that you have some internal doubts. And of course, you know, and therefore we don't ask these questions. When we are approaching the signs of God, signs means the questions will always pop out in our mind. We will question basically everything, why it is. The main question is why. The main question of signs, we try to find the reasons, the cause and effect relationship. So if it is there, if we don't just blindly accept whatever we hear, and sometimes, you know, the presentation of our philosophy is done in such a way that it doesn't really encourage the questions. you know, somebody is sitting on Vyasa-san and he's just, you know, giving one dogma after another dogma and you're there and you already kind of sense, you already receive the message that, you know you're not supposed to ask the questions, you're supposed just to, you know, just nod your head and say yes, yes, yes, I am an obedient member of Krishna conscious cult here. You know, so sometimes it's coming from the preacher who is presenting it in a certain way without you know, inviting people to think deeply to, you know, ask questions. So sometimes it's our fault, sometimes it's the fault of somebody who is presenting Krishna consciousness This is such a way that it inhibits questions instead of encouraging the questions. And we just receive the message properly. Yes, yes, yes, sir. Yes, yes, yes, I understand. Yes. If you guarantee me the salvation and the end, I will definitely swallow up all this garbage which you are talking about. I'm sorry for exaggerating a little bit, but this is how it sometimes works. So we have to think, we have to think. And when we think, then the questions will appear for sure. So many. And that's why in the fourth chapter of Bhagavad-Gita, at the end of the fourth chapter of Bhagavad-Gita, Krishna encourages this also. In the first chapter he says, and then after that he says that the knowledge is supposed to free oneself from doubts. But this freedom of doubts doesn't mean that we hide our doubts. There is a difference between the freedom of doubts and the hidden doubts, which we are trying to push down into our heart. And at the end of this chapter, Krishna says, just take the sword of knowledge and cut out by the sword of knowledge, cut asunder the hard knot of doubts within your heart. So the knowledge is there not to hide the doubts under the covering, but to cut the doubts. And for that, the questions are very important. Thank you. So, I think we'll go next with the... Shilidho, Prabhu, you have, I think, a few questions, so you can also ask them. Thank you very much for a wonderful introduction. I'm really resonating with that. Something was also picking me up on the last days. So my question is regarding universe of consciousness. So while I was studying Bhagavatam and studying the Mahat element, you know, sometimes it's called cosmic intelligence, Prabhupada mentions in 3.5.27, super consciousness. And I believe you also mentioned in the seminar this point about that the citta becomes very clear, this universal consciousness emerges. And I'm just trying to understand it more deeply. What is it exactly? Because also many modern scientists, they speak about this quantum field, this akashic field. So I'm trying to understand it more. Yeah, it's something like this. Nobody knows exactly because it's very difficult to define things which are not tangible, which you cannot really see. As soon as we start talking about things which are intangible, intangible in a sense that they are not really perceivable by our senses, it's very difficult to define them. For example, mind. How do you define the mind? Everyone speaks mind, mind, mind, but everyone has a completely different understanding of what mind is. What it is? How do you define this? Even though it's such a simple thing and such a common thing. So when we're talking about mahat, it's the most subtle element. It's a material element, but nevertheless it's material, but it's a more subtle material element. You can call it information fields. There are some people who speak about no sphere, the information field or information sphere which is there, which records everything. So perhaps the easiest way to explain it is by analogy. you know it's it's the field of ideas and the informational field whatever you call it and when the great people of this world you know make some discoveries or do something great Usually they do it, as far as I can understand, by connecting with this field, by having this direct connection. And this is how they call it inspiration or revelation. You know, sometimes it just comes from somewhere, from above. So, because it's the most subtle element of creation, all the grossest elements are stored or are present there in this causal sphere in non-manifest ways. So everything which we have, all the ideas, all the images, all the forms, they are there in a subtle form in this Mahat. So it's some sort of, you know, perhaps the most familiar analogy would be some sort of a cloud, Like we all have this cloud. How do you call it? Google cloud? iCloud. So in this iCloud you put something there and you store it there. So there is this little iCloud which you created and there is a big iCloud which is originally there, which is capable of storing the information somewhere there in this field. Yes, thank you for sharing that much. Actually, that makes a lot of sense. So it's not so much that you access, because it's such a pure state of consciousness, that you access the Paramatma more, but it's more that it's like the first element of creation that has all the elements stored in a subtle way, and therefore you have access to all life. Yeah. It has less to know with the connection with the source. Yeah. And it facilitates, when you approach this, when you clear up your heart, because sometimes it's called heart, citta, which is the micro level, is the analogy of Mahatattva, is the representation of Mahatattva on the micro level. So when it's clear, then through this window you can see God. It just becomes transparent and the light, the transcendental light is not blocked by the dirt on this media. It becomes transparent media and through this transparent media you can see some higher reality. But it's not the higher reality itself. It's just transparent enough to communicate or to give us connection with the higher reality. Thank you. So it's basically also the high intelligence that Bhagavad Gita speaks about. That is, because it seems like there are two types of intelligence. Voodi, that's a little bit like the analytical mind or rational mind. And then Mahat, like the spiritual high intelligence that is able to kind of zoom out and observe the Ahanggara. Yeah, and there is some confusion in this regard because in Sankhi philosophy they don't make distinction. When they speak about Bodhi, they speak about Mahat actually. But we in Bhagavata Sankhi, in Kapila Sankhi, there is a distinction between Bodhi, which is a rajasic element, and Mahat, which is a very highly sattvic element by nature. But sometimes Mahat is also called Bodhi, and that's where confusion is called. Mahat is called universal intelligence. So we should not mix it with our operational conscious mind by which we make the decisions. That's that's buddhi and there is Mahat which is higher element. Thank you very much. Maybe last question, how can we make sure that this information we receive is actually digested by our high intelligence and not just by our analytical mind, but it's just processing information? For that the process of purification is there. We can only be sure that the information we received is coming from the higher forces or from the higher levels if our consciousness is clear and transparent. And therefore we are not stressing so much receiving this information, We are stressing so much something which is depending on us, the process of purification of the heart. And then if the heart is pure, then naturally whatever we receive by this pure heart will be authentic. And sometimes people are in a hurry. They just want to get the revelation very quickly. But, you know, and therefore they get into all kinds of channeling and everything else and get some dubious information and try to present it as something authentic. But first, there should be a very thorough process of purification of the heart. Then only we can be sure that whatever we receive is of the highest quality. Thank you very much. said because actually before before starting bhakti yoga i was into anthroposophy which is um yeah some i don't know even how to describe it but they very uh they are based you know on the on study of aggregators you know and one of the main figures here in this juania is the person who was in Iskorn and then he left. He says he escaped the egregore, you know, and now he is spreading the knowledge of anthropopatosis. And actually the difficulty for me was because I was kind of entering into Vatthi Yoga yoga and i was asking everyone you know how they can explain you know the what is the aggregate you know from the point of view of uh of venice and of bhakti and actually i have never received any answer solid answer and this is still you know how to say this is still somewhere you know in in in my subconscious and i i cannot uh i cannot crack the code you know of this uh of this thing uh and sometimes i doubt you know if i you know if i actually you know like uh in in uh in in in on the real path or i'm just you know you know uh in some kind of agrigal you know taken as a slave you know they describe it so what i wanted to say i just i just you know hope that maybe sometime in the future this introduction which you said you know maybe it will become some kind you know of maybe seminar or something where where it would be possible to hear more deeply you know about the agriculture and you know collective uh subconsciousness um yeah so and so regarding the regarding my question so my question is um is about uh actually the initiation and about the vows uh which which uh which we have to take during the the uh the initiation and not about the vows itself but that the additional ones which were added to the original four ones uh because for for me it was uh yeah it's um somehow i do not understand that um and my not capability to understand that is based on the story of narada mooney and hunter which was like sadistic, sadistic person who took joy, you know, in not killing fully animals. And then he was asked just to chant Mara, not even the Rama, and got fully glorification without any additional, you know, vows or additional, you know, like things to do. And we, you know, I think we are not that sadistic, well, I hope, I don't know. But, you know, for us to take a similar process, you know, we have to take so many... No, no, no, please understand properly. These additional vows are completely optional. They are not at all a part of initiation process. They are just the ideas for you to contemplate and if you want to commit yourself to certain things, it's up to you. They are not a part of the initiation process. Some elements of them are quite institutional. And it's okay because we have to be grateful to the institution. Without the institution, where would we be? I'm not preaching here the anti-institutional philosophy. I am very loyal to ISKCON as an institution, and I think it's a great institution. With all its faults. But at the same time, the institution is an institution. it has an important role, but it should not overshadow our spiritual quest and shouldn't even substitute our spiritual quest or mingle with it. So these vows are just some optional things which you can think about. And if you like something or if you feel very strongly about something, you can give additional vows. But the signs behind the vow is that if you are really deeply convinced about the vow and you give the vow in front of people who are meaningful to you, then Krishna will help you to follow the vow. Krishna will give you the strength to do it you will get additional inspiration to do it but it's up to you and it's not a compulsory part of the initiation process the main part is just chant Hare Krishna and follow principles which will help you to chant Hare Krishna properly I do not remember all of them, but I know that one of these was, you know, that you're allowing not to participate in any investments and something like that. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, that's a completely different thing altogether. Additional vows, I can tell what it is all about, but you know, it's a mistranslation. The original vow which was during the part of Śrīla Prabhupāda was no gambling. Then gambling has two different connotations. the English word gambling. Gambling may mean you gamble into the stock market and gamble also means that you go to casino and you gamble there. And basically when Prabhupada was saying no gambling, he definitely didn't mean so much the stock market operations. He meant going to casino and try to get some extra money by exploiting this process. But then, when it was translated into Russian, they added this financial machinations or something like this into it. which has nothing to do with the original vow. It's a total mistranslation. And I always joke at it. Not always, but, you know, it's already a tradition, and I don't even fight with it. It's a total mistake. It has nothing to do with the additional vows. It's just the result of translating it into Russian incorrectly. So that's it. Additional vows which were there, they were supposedly recommended by the GBC. One is loyalty to one's guru, which is implied, which is not necessary. Another one is loyalty to Sampradaya. The philosophy of Sampradaya, Gaudiya Vaishnava Sampradaya, is presented by Śrīla Prabhupāda. Basically loyalty to Srila Prabhupada and his way of presenting the philosophy. Because at some point Srila Prabhupada's presentation is different from presentations of some other great representatives of our sampradaya. So they were concerned and there were so many speculations. You know, neophytes, they have the tendency to find the contradictions and blow them out of proportions. And because of this tendency, so many people started saying, you know, some people were saying, everyone else is wrong, only Srila Prabhupada is right. So other people were saying Srila Prabhupada is wrong. Actually, they are wrong. Srila Prabhupada is not wrong. others people are not wrong, but they are wrong by blowing all these contradictions out of proportions. And therefore the second additional vow is loyalty to the presentation of our philosophy by Srila Prabhupada. And the third additional recommended vow is the loyalty to the institution as such with its presentations, which is not at all necessary. Only if you really feel strongly that you want to be the part of this institution and dedicate your life to improve the institution. Because it's easy to criticize the institution, only lazy people don't criticize institutions. But it's much more difficult to remain loyal to the institution, remain grateful to the institution, and try to improve the institution by contributing. So this is the three additional vows, but they are totally optional. And regarding financial machinations, you know, this is not at all a part of the process. Thank you very much, sir. Thank you. Thank you, sir. If I have a question, please go ahead. I have second one if nobody asks. No, no, no, we have, we have. He was just... Yes, sir. Hare Krishna, bro. Hare Krishna. Hare Krishna, Maraj. Hare Krishna. Where are you? Maraj, sir. You are... In Hydro, Maraj. Oh, you are back? From Chardam, yeah. From Chardam? Yes, sir. Okay. Yes, sir. They are waiting for your heavy glasses. No, no. No, no. So, Maraj, I have two questions. regarding the topic is just what I like, not many are interested to learn in a scientific way Mara. So, and then like what happens is like most of them they just give that okay, you chant, you'll be free from this, you chant, you'll be happy. So this is what is promoted and this is the result also. So many people are chanting and targeting, benefited, there is a process. Now if I go, now I will try to be very, you have to work hard, this is how you have to reach sastra, you have to develop sastra with sastra, and you go very systematically, and I see that not much result comes. Somebody who mentioned this, okay, now seven days Vagos Tatar, this is a process, this giant, this nice protect chain, so nice, this process is nice. So the way they are present, this is so scientific, you get more results, you have hundreds of people who are attending and hearing and some motivational, something. So now, is it not benefiting them? I am just going to connect with a list, I have 10 to see. It's definitely beneficial for them. There is no doubt about it. And therefore, we should find a balance. I think it's okay in the beginning and there is nothing I mean, if the person wants to remain on this level, that's also fine it's up to him, it's his free choice but at least he should also at least those who want they should have an opportunity to go deeper. You know, if we only cater the needs of those people who really want to join the religion and to follow, you know, all the rules in exchange of being saved at the end, that's wrong. these people will be there but you know we should also cater the interest of other people if we only stress this kind of approach and encourage this kind of approach we should not discourage it because we should encourage everyone there's no doubt about it we should encourage everyone in their attempts whatever they are, however feeble they are, so that's fine. But we should specifically encourage those people who want to go deeper and facilitate their journey into Krishna consciousness. So we should not offend other people, we should encourage them. As Krishna says in Bhagavad Gita in the third chapter, we should not split their intelligence. We should not create unnecessarily doubts in their minds. Yes, they want to follow this, they're ready for this, this is their Radhikara, fine. But if we only do this, that's wrong. And as much as possible, we should encourage the other approach. Yes, there will be less people. Yes, there will be less results from an external point of view. But in reality results will be much more impressive. And there are so many, you know, most of the devotees still they join because they want to find the truth, not because they want to find some sort of institutionalized practice which is approved by higher authorities and supposedly guarantees some miraculous result at the end. If they are doing Bhakti Sastri, they are doing Bhakti Vaibha also, but at the end they are understanding and say that we have done also, we have read the Sastra, but still it is not the Sastra. Yeah, and therefore I am not a big fan of the courses, Bhakti Vaibha of courses and Bhakti Sastri courses, which I gave them myself, but I'm not a big fan of them, at least at this moment of my understanding. I think they're giving something good. There is definitely positive results in taking these courses, but they also you know there is some implicit message in these courses that yes you are done exactly as you said I'm done you know how you can finish Bhagavad Gita you cannot finish Bhagavad Gita you know Silav Yasadev is still reading Bhagavad Gita in his Uttar Badri every day and he's not done with Bhagavad Gita so they give a wrong understanding that you know yes I passed Bhakti Shastri exam it means I know Bhagavad Gita you don't know Bhagavad Gita you don't know Bhagavad Gita Bhagavad Gita you cannot finish Bhagavad Gita what to speak about Simad Bhagavatam you can't finish Bhagavad Gita So this message which is there, come to us and you will know everything, that's wrong. And the methodology which is given, like recently, yeah, I was giving one Zoom session about Bhagavad Gita, studying Bhagavad Gita. And somebody asked me, what is the significance of knowing all the signs of victory, which are implicitly listed in the first chapter of Bhagavad Gita? And immediately I couldn't understand where this question is coming from. It's coming from this sort of, you know, Bhakti Shastri courses or Bhagavad Gita courses, where you have to, you know, memorize how many signs of victory are there, you know. Then Bhishma blowing his conchal, and then Pandavas are blowing their conchal, and Krishna is blowing his consul and the consuls of Pandava have names and consuls of Bhishma and Kauravas don't have names and therefore this is the sign of victory. So it's fine. It's a very beautiful vichara of some commentator who was finding this sign of victory But what it becomes when we study the Bhakti Shastri course, it becomes a very, you know, dry theoretical knowledge. You have to memorize all this stuff and the signs of victory. For what you have to memorize? You know, in reality what it is, it is the tips for your meditation. You meditate on the first chapter of Bhagavad Gita. You meditate on this scene and you try to enter this scene by meditating on the verses of Bhagavad Gita and you experience some feelings. You know, yes, yes, the whole thing is about this, that ultimately Krishna is there and the victory will be on Arjuna's side. But it becomes, you know, some dry sort of thing. you know you have to memorize all the signs of victory for what for what you have to memorize about it to pass the exam for what you should pass the exam I don't know you know it completely changes the whole idea you know the study of the scriptures is the is the facilitation to meditate on the content and in the process of meditating in the content you will get the questions and you will get some beautiful realizations as well and you can verify these realizations with the more knowledgeable person who is giving this but instead it becomes just formality just tick exercise You put the tick there, you know. First chapter of Bhagavad-gita is done. You know, I passed the exam, I know all the signs of victory, never again. Thank you for your many questions. I think that they are connected to Maharaj. Whenever I am doing service, there is a feeling that I am connected to my sister. Now I have some people who are guiding and they are going to take initiation. Now they are , they are , how can they keep that connection? Because what is the service they can do for you and how they achieve the connection to the spiritual master very strongly? And how they see this? Because for him it's pleasure I am doing. Because without that ego they will not be able to make the prove it. So unless they have that ego that I am serving. So how to develop this? Yeah, when I see there is a beautiful Sanskrit construct, susrushaha. Literally, it means the one who is desiring to hear. But in reality, it means the one who is eager to follow. So the idea behind this, the implication behind this is that when you hear eagerly, then you should develop the desire to follow what is being said, not just hear. and this is the service the service is when we hear eagerly and not only hear eagerly but then implement it into our life into our practice when we hear and then follow that's the service that's that's seva yeah And therefore, service is called Upasana. When we follow what is being said by Guru, then we feel that we become close to him. And therefore, it's called Upasana. Upasana means sitting close. this process of following conscious following when we are trying to you know do what our spiritual master wants us to do or how he wants us to do the way he wants us to do the mood in which he wants us to do then we become close naturally to him and this closeness is there you know some people Srila Prabhupada didn't have so much personal association or personal service to Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati but who will say that he was not close to him Srila Prabhupada himself said that I always feel that he is behind my back watching what I am doing Because he wanted to fulfill his desire, Śrīla Prabhupāda wanted to fulfill the desire of his spiritual master. And that made him so close and so intimately connected with his guru. Yeah, thank you, Vruch. Just, Nikushi is next, and how much more time do you have? That's two, whatever, whatever. So, just a little question on what you have just said. So is it right to think that when I listen to a guru and when I try to read what he says, that I also start to understand the guru better? But at the same time, what I feel sometimes in my life, maybe I'm not able to articulate exactly like you can articulate some things, but somehow it gets into my heart. Everything that I look at life, I look through this absolute guru. Sīla, it doesn't matter, you know, it's a personal style. Sīla Prabhupāda is speaking in a completely different style than Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvati. He was not even trying to imitate Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvati style, because there is no need. It's imitation. But he imbibed the mood and then he speaks in his own way. There is no need to articulate it in the same way. Everyone has a different personality, different style, different way of thinking, but we should digest it or ingest it and then manifest it according to our style. Thank you Guru Maharaj. So, Kushi has got three questions, so Kushi can you please come and help? Yeah, make sure you want to use yourself. Hare Krishna, Guru Maharaj, please accept my humble obeys. Hare Krishna. Thank you so much for the introductory lecture lecture and it just made me really feel so grateful for the Pranama Mantra platform where it really helps take me from that understanding of like Krishna consciousness being the science of God and just explaining why we do things from a physical, mental and spiritual perspective as well because I think when I first started there was a lot of I guess resistance to following certain things even though I would. But after I started understanding this through all those lectures, I feel like now when I follow, it's more like this is good for me and I want to. So yeah, thank you so much for that. So yeah, one of my questions was, when we get time to achieve something in our material or spiritual life, it's just not happening. It's And these are two ways that we can go about it. One is like we just keep carrying on and sometimes it can feel like, you know, banging your head against a wall. And then the other approach is we just kind of surrender and say, oh, this is not meant for me and maybe Krishna has a different desire for me. And so in some sense that's almost like surrendering. But I guess that also conflicts with what I've been thinking recently where like in the Bhagavad Gita, you know, Krishna tells Arjuna to fight. So, you know, do we keep fighting and then sometimes in surrendering it could also make us complacent. So I guess when we're faced with these kind of situations in life, like how do we know which force to take? For that we need an intelligence. Surrendering means using the intelligence properly, not turning off the intelligence. And yes, sometimes we should really fight and struggle to achieve certain things, and sometimes we should not. And it really depends on the thing which we are trying to achieve and so many other factors. how to determine which way, which course to take in a particular situation. You need somebody who is a little more detached and knowledgeable, who can give you an advice without interfering with your responsibility. You're still responsible for the action which you take. and yeah sometimes he or she can say you know there is no point of struggling too much or sometimes he or she will say no no this is very important for you and you have to really you know hammer this point and you have to really try to achieve this thing it's a very you know that's the intelligence the intelligence is the ability to discriminate where you have to surrender or you know let it go let it be as it is and you know discriminate between these situations and the situations where you have to really pursue and push it through by all means. You know, if you don't have the discrimination, then the tendency will be, depending on your personality, following either one way or another way. You know, if you are a little weak and, you know, you pretend to be too much religious, then you will just say, okay, Krishna doesn't want. You know, and in many cases it will be just laziness. If you are very stubborn and, you know, have a strong will, you will just, you know, try to break the wall by your head stubbornly. And it's also not good. So intelligence is to discriminate between these sort of situations. And if you feel that it's very difficult for you to determine, then there is somebody else who can be approached and can give you some advice, whether you should pursue it or should let it go. And sometimes, you know, astrology helps in this regard. But again, depending on the level of astrologers, not all astrologers are equally good and not all their advices should be taken literally. But, you know... And Gurmarath, how can we build that intelligence so that it can overcome the mind as well in all situations? Well, it's a question of training the intelligence. The whole sadhana process and the whole Vedic culture is to train the intelligence. Like, intelligence is the ability to discriminate. You know, until monkeys jumping over the tree and showering some mercy upon me. I mean, it's just rainwater, not anything else. So, you develop the ability to discriminate by first hearing about things. You know, that's the beginning. It's the standard process. If you want to learn how to discriminate things, then first you have to hear. This is the situation, that is the situation. In this situation Ambariš Maharaj was completely complacent and he was standing there without doing anything. In that situation, Prahlad Maraj was fighting, you know, and struggling. And, you know, that's what it is. We hear different stories, different life stories, and how people behaved in different situations. We hear the story of Srila Prabhupada's life, how he was struggling a lot, how he was coming to the office of Sindhya steamship and asking when is the next steamship going out of America back and never taking this opportunity, you know, to fulfill the desire of his spiritual master. And how in some cases when his business was destroyed, how he just said, you know, okay, I surrender. Krishna doesn't want me to do it, so it's probably time for me to renounce. So first we're here, and then we try to apply it in our life and see what works, what not. And then we also develop the intelligence by association. Association is also a very important way to develop the intelligence because in closer association with somebody when we watch how he or she behaves, we also learn a lot, you know, we kind of feel how to act in this situation or that situation. So, hear, follow, associate, and also preach. When you preach, it also helps. Thank you so much, Burmaj. I have other questions, but I'm sure there's many other questions. So, thank you so much for your guidance. Thank you, Burmaj. As you see it's getting dark here, so we can have few questions but not too many. I think next one is from Paul, because he sent it also beforehand. And then Mataji is not about to study. So Paul, if you can ask now. Say it again, what? My salute to Namsankhidana for filming you for Netflix. Okay. My question is, might be a little silly, but it's very practical. I get faced with it often. And a couple of lectures ago, it was said that we should not advertise the little benefit of chanting in the Holy Name. we should not say that it brings heat or happiness or anything like that to other people. What would you recommend to tell someone if someone is asking me, hey, what are you doing there with that bag? To get them interested in trying it out and not to downplay the whole name. I probably didn't mean that we should not say about the benefits of the chanting. We should speak about the benefits of the chanting. in a very realistic and proper way as Prabhupada was explaining he was saying that this is the natural tendency of the living entity to be connected with the higher power and how you can be connected with the higher power by pronouncing the name of God which is not different from God himself so you can speak so many things especially if you realize it yourself because the realized knowledge is always better than just theoretical knowledge so what I probably meant is that you should not do this sort of cheap advertisement which is usually false or exaggerate because you know there is this nines offense to the holy name that you should not preach the glory of the holy name to the those who don't have face it it doesn't mean that we should not preach which it basically means that we should instill the real face into the hearts of the people. Instead of, you know, going around and giving some cheap advertisement by, you know, manipulating people into chanting. You know, we should encourage them to chant by explaining them the signs behind it, But we should not just try to, by hook and by crook, make them some sort of... get them into some parrot repetition. So if I would sell someone to bring a piece, they would bring... Yeah, it's fine. It's fine. Yeah, it's a meditation which brings peace and you can explain deeper, you know, depending on the level of the person, how much he can understand. That's fine. That's fine. Thank you very much. Yeah, and Pabhukta Prabhu also raised his hand. Yes. Hare Krishna Maharas, my humble obeisance. Thank you so much, Maharaj, for your ask. It was very helpful. It was a topic that I was thinking about for a long time. So I am asking a question which is very relatable to it. Maharaj, many times we have heard, like, you know, when we take Diksha, all the sinful reactions go away. That's what we have heard. But then we don't see, at least in my perception, I haven't seen very drastic or even I would say palpable change in the character of a person. Whereas when I see, because I am coming from Pune, so I see the, when we go through systematic training, we see much more palpable change in people's character. So my question is, what are the missing here? Is that when we take Diksha, the level of surrender of the disciples matters a lot, as well as the purity of the spiritual master? That's what makes us... I don't fully understand it, Miles. If you can elaborate on this. Yeah. In reality, you know, It's very much depends on the proper definition of the words. You know, there is a Diksha process which we have, and you know, people follow some process, some formality of this process, without sometimes understanding deeply what is behind this process. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu himself explains that Diksha means Atma Samarpan. You completely surrender yourself. And this spirit of complete surrender definitely frees oneself from sinful reactions because it basically eradicates the sinful reactions and sinful tendencies in people. it's very purifying, the spirit of surrender spirit of, you know, Saranagati you know, I like, we can see this Mrigari the hunter you know, he took Diksha from Narada Muni and because of the sincerity of this you know of this process of his initial impetus, he was immediately free from all these tendencies. Immediately free. But you know now what is going on in this coin, we just you know more or less follow certain formalities. Yes somebody fasts for half a day and And then he says, you know, I don't eat meat because I anyway don't like it. So, and, you know, and then I will try to chant something. There is no Atmos Amarpan behind it. There is no this, you know, sincere surrender behind it. So it's not necessarily completely purifies you from all these sinful tendencies and reactions. In the process of doing it, and we have to understand that Diksha is the process. You know, it may happen immediately, but usually it happens over the period of time when you take initiation. But initiation is just the ceremony of initiation, it's just a part of the Diksha process. And this process can be quite, you know, prolonged time, can take some time. Thank you so much. Maharaj, does that mean that actually it's surrender which does the burning of the sinful reaction? Oh yeah, definitely. Yeah, surrender and determination to follow the process, yes. But, Shmarag, you also mentioned last time when I asked you that only at the stage of Nishta can we put the surrender. Before that, it's more like a Harpan Nidocho. Yeah. Yeah, and therefore the process of Diksha is actually, all these stages from initial Shraddha till Nishta, it's the process of Diksha. Diksha is more or less completed. This process of Diksha, the planting of the seed within the heart of a disciple, is completed when he reaches the stage of Nishtha. So, Shiksha is also part of the Diksha process? Oh yeah, definitely. Shiksha is the vital part of Diksha process, yes. So, what you are doing in Pune systematic training is a part of Diksha. It's a Diksha. Maharaja, just one more question. This is related to last time we had asked about, somebody had asked me that, like when we reach power through the sadhana process, Is it possible to come to the stage of natural Vraja Bhakti through the sadhana process that has been given to us by Śrīla Prabhupāda, or do we have to in between take a route of Rāga-ruga Bhakti to go to that kind of spontaneous Bhakti of Vraja-mūta? What is the, how do we understand this one? Srila Prabhupada said that he gave everything in his books as well, and he explains in his books the process of, you know, Raganuga sadhana. And in fact, meditating on such books as Chaitanya Charitamrita is actually also a process of Raganuga Sadhana in one sense, because you are meditating on the mood of Chaitanya Mahabrabhu, who is manifesting the mood of Shri Mati Radharani. you are meditating on the mood of the eternal associates of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and while studying the books of Srila Prabhupada we are also meditating on his mood which is also the mood of Raja Bhakti but then you know this gradual development because, you know, what is Vraja Bhakti? Vraja Bhakti is a certain mood. You know, the mechanics of the sadhana is the same. You know, you chant the same mantra, you basically do the same. You do some, you know, archana, puja, but the internal mood is different. So the Raja Bhakti is awakening by associating with people who have the mood, but this association can be by meditating on them as well, knowing we should meditate on the mood of Srila Prabhupada, meditate on Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, his mood and mood of his associates, and then see and associate with people who have similar mood and who, you know, who manifest this mood in their practice of Krishna consciousness. So, but the technique is the same, sadhana is the same, it's just the mood in which we are doing it is different. Thank you, Maharaj. Thank you so much for letting me know. Thank you so much. See you next time.