Scientific Presentation of Krishna Consciousness

Prabhupada and his ideas in this world, is arguably did the most to spread this movement, at least in India, that's for sure, and in many other parts of the world. So, the topic of my presentation, as you know, Prem Kishore Prabhu explained this to me, the need for presenting Krishna consciousness in a scientific way. So the whole idea of what I will be speaking about very briefly, shortly, without going into details, is how we need to become truly a scientific movement that Srila Prabhupada envisioned. And the main goal and mission of this movement, not only preach to the masses, but also to to change the paradigm. Because it is not the people who are now totally misled. Of course, definitely the people are misled, but the whole world is misled by the scientific paradigm. And unless this paradigm is changed, unless there will be a shift of the paradigm, how we view the world, there is no solution to all the problems which we have in the world. Srila Prabhupada was very proud, and this is quote from one of his lectures, which was also included into Journey of Self-Discovery. This movement can solve all the problems of life, all the problems of the world, social, political, philosophical, religious, economic. Everything can be solved by Krishna consciousness. Therefore, we request those who are leaders, like His Excellency who is present here, to try to understand this Krishna consciousness movement. It is a very scientific and authorized. It is not a mental concoction or sentimental movement. It is a most scientific movement. So we are inviting all leaders from all countries to try to understand. If you are sober, if you are actually reasonable, you will understand that this Krishna consciousness movement is the most sublime movement for the welfare of the whole human society. So that's definitely the thesis of Srila Prabhupada, and he based his preaching upon this understanding that Krishna consciousness is not yet another religion. It's a science. It's a scientific movement, and it is meant to solve the problems of humanity. That's a very important point which we have to have in mind, and that's why by the end of his life, of Srila Prabhupada, he created Bhaktivedanta Institute. This Bhaktivedanta Institute, his last project was probably the most cherished and the most important creation of Srila Prabhupada. He said that to Bhaktisvarugya Madargoswami, who was the head of Bhaktivedanta Institute, he said to him that I preach Krishna consciousness, but now it's your time to preach Krishna consciousness. Like now Prem Kishore Prabhu said, the floor is yours. So paraphrasing Srila Prabhupada, we can also say the floor is yours. You have to preach Krishna consciousness in a particular way. And Srila Prabhupada was very emphatic about this. And of course, the whole world is leading a completely different life, way of life. And the paradigm, the common worldview, including most of the Indians, unfortunately, is becoming more and more materialistic. I just wanted to start with this particular person, Stephen Pinker, and his book Enlightenment Now, where he says that it's only enlightenment or the time when materialistic paradigm became dominant in the world is the way of progress. and he says that the fidelity to the ideals of reason, science and humanism this is the only way for improvement and progress and he claims very boldly not less boldly than Srila Prabhupada Srila Prabhupada made very bold claim but materialistic scientists they also make very bold claim he says progress is easily observable in science, medicine, and every day's life. And he shows all kinds of statistics. But then he says, quite surprisingly, that more than ever, the idealists of reason, science, humanism, and progress need a wholehearted defense. He basically says that there is a change, a perceivable change in the mood of the people of this world. The science which basically ruled undisputably for a couple of centuries become more and more a questionable enterprise. And sensing this, he wrote the whole book, Enlightenment Now, to defense the ideas of science, humanism and progress. And he specifically says that the ideals of the Enlightenment produce human reason, but they always struggle with other strengths of human nature. Loyalty to tribe, defense to authority, magical thinking, the blaming of misfortune on evildoers. The second decade of the 21st century has seen the rise of political movements that depict their countries as being pulled into hellish dystopia by malign factors that can be resisted only by a strong leader who branches the country backward to make it great again. Of course, we know whom he means. so anyway so he feels that there is a trend and this trend is quite common and we are definitely representatives of this trend to bring humanity back to its roots to its spiritual roots because the materialistic paradigm which is dominant at this moment of time bring us nowhere or rather to hell. And therefore Srila Prabhupada, he says, this ignorance about the eternity of living being and the change of covering in the material world has played havoc in the structure of modern human society. Consequently, there are many problems multiplied by various plans of modernized man. Consequently, there are many problems multiplied by various plans of modernized men, the plans for solving the problems of society have only aggravated the troubles. So we live in this time when, because of this paradigm, modern paradigm, the world is in deep trouble, even though people like Steven Pinker are trying to prove the opposite. And it's not difficult to argue that the world is in a deep crisis. And Srila Prabhupada, four decades before, or even five decades before, he was foreseeing this. He already saw the signs of this crisis which is coming. And now it's in full bloom. and not only us people of spiritual inclinations, but many other people feel that something is wrong, something is rotten in this world. So basically what I want to say is that if we are to bring the change to the world view, We have to work not on a particular little project which would prove here and there a little bit that spiritual paradigm is valid. we should work on disproving the materialistic paradigm in general and formulating the spiritual paradigm, the Vedic paradigm, in a scientific way so that ultimately we can apply this paradigm and show how it works and how it really can solve the problems of humanity. Srila Prabhupada had this phrase, spiritual solution for material problems. And if we are honest, we have to admit that we didn't apply this motto in a very consistent way. We did try to apply it, but sometimes we were really puzzled how to solve the problems of humanity exactly because we are not talking about the radical paradigm shift. So the points which you see on this slide are the proposed plan to do this. First of all, we have to very clearly understand ourselves and show to other people how the modern civilization is in deep crisis, and how this crisis is not some partial crisis. Many people can see there is political crisis, there's economic crisis, social crisis, even scientific crisis, moral crisis for sure, and of course ecological crisis. But if we take everything together, we will be able to see that there is a systemic crisis. The crisis of value system of the modern society. And therefore some very enlightened scientists they start talking about metacrisis. The overcrisis which is behind all these partial manifestations of crisis. that there is something deeper, more profound, and more pervading. So this is the first point which we have to be very clear, that the world is in crisis. And Srila Prabhupada, he made the prophetic statement, and it's up to us whether we will fulfill his prophecy or not. He said that the historians of the future will say that ISKCON, the Krishna Consciousness Movement, saved the world in the hour of most dire crisis, in the most dark hour of its history. And we are here, we are at this point, there is no doubt about it, if we analyze it impartially. Unfortunately, we try to follow the ostrich policy and pretend that it's not so bad and ultimately everyone hopes that ultimately science will find some solution. But science cannot find solution because the science is the root cause of this crisis. So the next point, which we have to be very clear to show how the dogmatic materialistic science And the science basically now is turned into a very dogmatic religious sort of institution. With very dogmatic and rigid rules of allegiance, everyone has to basically pledge allegiance to these materialistic dogmas of the science. And it's not difficult to show how in every particular area the technologies which are proposed by modern science ultimately cause crisis, cause problems. Whether it's medicine or the human health, health of humanity, or social science, economics, and industry, so on and so forth. What to speak about ecology, this is one area where we can clearly see the connection between the achievements of the science and the state of affairs. very difficult and very critical state of affairs in humanity. So much so that famous Hawkins, famous physicist, he said that basically Earth is finished and we have to, within two, three decades, find another planet which we will ruin because there is no hope for the Earth. We will not survive here. That was his prophecy and his understanding, and he knows what he's talking about. So then if we really want, if we are serious to show, if we are serious to understand how the science caused the crisis, We have to really understand how the original ideas which were common in all civilizations, understanding that Spirit, God, is present in this world, He is transcendental and immanent at the same time, that the whole world is His energy, and everything else is animated by the spirit and the consciousness is the background of creation. That was the common idea in human civilization for millennia. But gradually, gradually, somewhere in the beginning of the new era or before in Greece, the Western civilization started sprouting, the gradual development of the ideas ultimately brought about this fanatical materialistic worldview. We can very clearly show this progression or rather digression, the devolution of human understanding of the nature of reality. How the nature of reality which was viewed originally by ancient people as personalized. And that the background of everything, the source of everything is person, ultimately. And we see the personal traits everywhere, how this was gradually turned into the understanding that everything is impersonal and everything is exploitable. that the nature, because it's dead, because it's material, should be exploited by humans, who ultimately is the creation of this nature, but that's another point. So this historical overview is very important to understand this history, how it happened and how it ultimately brought us to the Enlightenment era where the materialistic ideas become triumphant, victorious, and ultimately completely banned any spiritual worldview. So then because of this, understanding very clearly how it happened, And we can basically understand the paradigms, or not paradigms, the axioms or postulates of modern science. And how they are methodologically wrong. How because of these methodological errors, the science brought humanity where it is now. how the faulty methods of science created this distorted worldview where there is no room for God, where there is not even room for consciousness. There are many scientists who study the functions of the brain who say that there is no consciousness. It's just an illusion. There is only some chemical reactions in the brain. But luckily, as I said, this need for paradigm shift is also recognized more and more within the science and scientific communities, because there are serious problems which cannot be solved on the basis of this materialistic paradigm. Quantum physics is of course one, the nature of consciousness is a huge area, and of course cosmology is becoming more and more questionable and all the traditional views being examined now and reconsidered. And of course, perhaps the most important, which Srila Prabhupada stressed again and again and again, how the life comes about. Because chemical evolution is a big question mark. It's an accepted fraud. I wouldn't even call it theory. It's an accepted and scientifically recognized fraud that life comes from chemicals. Nobody ever proved it. Nobody will be able to prove it because it's not possible to create such complex chemical structures out of very simple molecules. So we can clearly examine the errors of the science, the methodological errors, the methodology of the science, how it approaches to study reality, and how it cannot, in principle, depict the full picture of reality. And then from there we will clearly see the need of paradigm shift. And the most important, in my humble view, area of research is to show how these axioms or postulates of modern science can be replaced by the Vedic axioms or Vedic postulates. And I'm convinced that if we use the scheme which Srila Prabhupada mentions in the introduction of Bhagavad Gita, by quoting Baladev Fidya Bhushan, that Bhagavad Gita deals with five fundamental categories of reality. Ishvara, Prakriti, Kala, Karma, and what else? Ishvara, Prakriti, Kala, Karma, and Jiva. Yeah, if we very clearly understand this and formulate scientifically how these postulates can form the basis for the completely new paradigm, scientific paradigm, then we will be successful in this attempt to show the alternative. Because it's very easy to criticize something and it's very easy to criticize science. But if we don't propose any positive alternative, all this criticism will be just empty. But the most challenging point of this plan, which I propose for your consideration, this is my own thinking of what Bhaktivedanta Institute should be doing to fulfill the mission which Srila Prabhupada proposed. The most challenging is of course to show how this new scientific paradigm based on these five postulates. That there is Ishvara, a personal God whose will manifests through this material nature. that the basis of prakriti is qualities of nature, three gunas, three qualities, not quantities, as modern science suggests. That evolution exists, but this is the evolution of consciousness, not the evolution of matter. And this is jiva. that Kala is actually semantic. Kala, time, is semantic and it's not just a blind force. It's the manifestation of God's will within this world and how karma and dharma, these two twin concepts of Vedic philosophy, follow from this and how they can be applied. So the next point, when we formulate this complete and comprehensive Vedic worldview or scientific paradigm of the Vedas, we have to apply and show how it works, that it works in different areas of life and it can solve the problems. Luckily, we have an example of this, which is becoming more and more prominent in the modern world. this is Ayurvedic medicine, how Ayurvedic medicine is an alternative of the modern medicine based on this Vedic scientific paradigm on Vaisheshika and Sankhya worldview. But that will not be enough. We have to show how this paradigm works in other areas. And this is, as I said, is the most challenging point of the whole program. But ultimately, it all has to bring us to the last point of this plan. And the scientific, we have to really scientifically prove that there is another way of life. That the way of life, which logically follows from this materialistic paradigm, the modern way of life, is wrong. That ultimately the solution of all problems is not even to change the worldview of a few scientists, but to change the way of life of the whole humanity. to establish certain spiritual principles upon which our life should be based. So ultimately that's the idea of this whole enterprise, to show how the way of life proposed by the Vedas, by Dharma Shastras, by Simad Bhagavatam, how this way of life is the only scientific and the only right way of life. That it is the proper way of living in this world. And in this way to prove, as Srila Prabhupada puts in his first purpose for ISKCON, that the spiritual techniques, Vedic spiritual techniques work. How this worldview ultimately brings about a solution on different level. On the social level and on the individual level, solution of all our problems. And how ultimately all the problems are created by our karma and how we should live according to the principles of Dharma to mitigate the pernicious consequences of our karma and our way of life. So that's the very short outline which I propose to your consideration what it means to preach Krishna consciousness movement in a scientific way, which was the purpose of my presentation, and I believe I made it on time, right? I had only 40 minutes, right? So, that was... That was... Are you able to hear Maharaj my voice? Yes, I can hear you very clearly and this is my presentation and I'm open for your questions. So I invite now if devotees can ask questions and comment, you can comment also. Thank you for the nice class, really wonderful points you mentioned. So the systematic steps, how the devotees of our time this will focus on, it's really important. So while discussing you mentioned, out of all five aspects, I understand, we have some semantic measure you have mentioned. But what about time? What does semantic time mean? You mentioned something in detail. According to Vedic conception, time is not just this little letter T in the mathematical equations. Time influences everything in this world. It has the meaning and every moment of time is laden with meaning. every moment of time influences us in a particular way, which is very beautifully described in astrology, how different influences symbolically depicted by all these stars and everything else. How this basically, it's not the stars as such, it's just the description of the meaning of this particular moment. and how we should utilize the time not in a very uniform, or view the time not as a uniform force, but as a very variegated force which influences us. And this is, again, very practical to live in harmony with the time, because ultimately what is required for people to be happy, for humanity to be happy, for the whole world to be happy, we have to live in harmony with reality. The problem of modern way of life, it's totally not in sync with reality, not in sync with God. So understanding that time has meaning, every moment of time has meaning, can change our view and bring us back into this understanding that for everything there is proper time and we should be very careful by doing something. Like for example, one practical application of it. It's a very paradoxical phenomenon in the modern society. People give so much attention to the quality control of the cars. There are so many different stages where cars are made properly because they know if the cars are made with some mistakes, faulted, that there will be a lot of accidents. But there is absolutely no attention given to how we produce children. There is zero attention given how to produce children, whereas it's much more important than to produce good cars. And this is the application of this understanding of time To produce good children you have to use this understanding that every moment of time has some qualities. And if you do it improperly as it is shown in Srimad Bhagavatam in the story of Diti and her two sons Hiranyaksa and Hiranyakashiku, then you bring about disasters to this world. So, it's a very important and again very practical concept which has to be restored in a human understanding, otherwise there will be no solution. Thank you, thank you, Maharaj. Hope to see you sometime in Monday or... Yeah, I also hope to come sometime. Maharaj, I had one question. So, like these stages you shot, how it should be done. When Prabhupada founded BI and Prabhupada had given these instructions and specifically Prabhupada's instructions on life comes from life, so that comes under the Jiva category. And then Prabhupada said this, also he talked about the Vedic epistemology, the Shubhita Pramaana and so and also the cosmology of Bhagavatam specifically and Prabhupada was focusing on the scientific method was limited. Yes. So, and now your presentation, your advice that the five postulates or five axioms we should be doing. So my question was, your advice is in terms of research or in terms of outreach? Or it's a combination of both? It's a combination of both, definitely. And cosmology is definitely an important area of research, but we also have to preach it to different audiences to help them understand the scientific nature of Krishna consciousness, that there is a very solid scientific foundation for it. It's not just a mechanical set of rituals which have to be followed in a certain way. So Prabhupada showed, as you said, the most important concepts. But when he was saying about epistemology, it is also included in my presentation which I made right now, when I'm talking about postulates. Postulates basically means that we cannot really logically or experimentally prove. We have to accept certain things and science is doing it all the time. It's all based on unprovable premises. But we take our premises from the Vedas. So this epistemology is included there when I'm talking about examining the postulates of science showing their limitation and explaining how the postulates which are coming from the Vedas give much more comprehensive and satisfactory understanding of reality. So it has to be done both for research and for outreach as well. I'm totally convinced and that's That's why Srila Prabhupada sat in at the end in 1977 to Svarubhda Madhar Goswami. He remembers it that now this is your time to preach. You have to preach Krishna consciousness. I did my part. Now you have to present it in your way. Yes, yes, thank you. My name is Purushottam Das, I work as a scientist in Boston, Massachusetts, and very neophyte in Rakshree, I would say, for a few years, say it seriously. So my question is more of future of scientific teaching because I am young so far so I am thinking of where we will go. So as you said that this movement has expanded a lot. Like now we have at least million maybe worldwide practitioners who are coming to temples. They know our postulate works. experiencing. But it is more for me it is coming like a religion, not like a scientific. Especially in India it is more of a religious movement than a scientifically driven movement. So my question is should we more do first convince internal outreach or within ISKCON that it is scientific? Because I don't think it is a lot of people believe it is scientific. It's more like ritual. My humble opinion, you're absolutely right. Our first audience is con-devotees. We have to convince these con-devotees about the scientific nature of Krishna consciousness because if we view Krishna consciousness as a religion, the approach to Krishna consciousness will be completely different. And I wrote recently an article on this topic which was quite, I mean, I got a lot of positive feedback about this, how not to turn is gone into religion, where I specifically consider these two approaches to Krishna consciousness and how they differ in different areas, in different applications and how we more and more, you're right, your observation is right. We are practically uncontrollably on the way to become yet another religion which Srila Prabhupada didn't want. He didn't come to create another religion of the world and make another complications for people. He wanted to give universal principles of spiritual science and to show it. So my answer to your question is absolutely 100% clear. First, we have to preach to the devotees. And that's why I was so happy to have this chance to present these views to you with some hope to kind of gain some people who are thinking in the same way and do something together. I think it's very important to preach to the devotees. Otherwise, we will just become another religion and ultimately, the movement will lose its revolutionary spirit and the ability to transform the lives. People will just become... Srila Prabhupada actually, he had one very beautiful word coined. He called, he said, there is Christianity, and he said, but you can turn this cone into churchianity. Make it another church. So that was his idea. Don't turn this cone into churchianity. So yeah, okay. I got your answer. Thank you so much. Thank you Purushottom Prabhu. Thank you. My name is Rithuthyip Gadaidas, back-ex-coy and by professor I am a statistician. My question is a little silly but the problem we are facing, we face two kind of people. Either they are God-loving, to whom we go and we think that they were just waiting for us and by a little work they can easily become the devotees or they are believers. But other kind of people, they are totally non-believers. Whatever the facts we provide, whatever the things we provide, whatever the data we provide, So, we are not finding any gray area between two kinds of people, where we just make some effort and we can get the nice, you can say that the devotee or the people. So that is the biggest challenge we find. I would not agree completely with your observation because I think there is definitely very stubborn atheists which are brought up by modern education. The modern universities, they produce stalwart atheistic believers, so to speak. fanatical people who are not reasonable. And yes, there are people who are naturally inclined to some sort of religion. Sometimes they are sentimental. But there are some people in between. They mostly consider themselves agnostics or atheists or whatever, but they are seekers. They still want to seek the truth and they have some doubts. Doubts in the accepted world view. That it does not really work. They feel that something is wrong. For example, more and more people have doubts in modern medicine. They can see, first of all, maybe not in India, in India still Western medicine is a very good brand, so to speak, but at least in the West we can see this very strong movement that people don't trust modern medicine. They don't trust their methodology, they don't trust their views, they are looking for some more holistic solution. So the people who doubt the dogmas of modern worldview, there is a lot of them. They may not be so open, so obvious, but they are seeking for something. And especially now, in the West it's definitely there. They can see the signs of crisis. It may not be as visible in India as it is in the West, although it is quite pronounced in India too nowadays. But Indian people, they are more tolerant, they are more adjustable to circumstances. They may not feel it so acutely, and they still have more favorable social background. So they don't feel so much the social problems. But of course, there is a lot of problems here too. So I think there is people in between, people who seek, who doubt the basic paradigms or basic dogmas of worldview. And this is our prime audience. If we only try to, you know, prey upon these sentimental people who are anyway inclined to do some religious practices and do it just by tradition without thinking why they are doing it, We will ultimately be trapped into this trap of being religion because we will have to cater the interest of these people. These people are not interested to find the truth. They are not even interested to so much transform themselves. They are just happy with being religiously sentimental and God-fearing and hoping that it will be counted for the next life, something like this. And we will only be always catering their needs without really paying attention to those people who really need Krishna consciousness, those who are searching for truth. Thank you, Maharaj. I think one more question, Maharaj. Sure. Thank you. I am a scientist in the ID of Defense Research and Development Organization. Defense Research? Yes, Maharaj. Actually, I am practicing astrology. So I want to know how I can use this astrology as a tool to preach Krishna consciousness. It's a great tool and in the West, devotees, they have a lot of success by preaching Krishna consciousness through astrology. Because by using astrology you can first of all very clearly show that there are higher forces in work. That it's not all mechanical arrangement of molecules and atoms. That there is something much more profound which is happening in our life with some reason. So, it's a big question. I would be happy to discuss it with you more. But there are different possibilities how to preach it. Again, astrology is very much against the very fact of the existence of astrology, very much against the modern scientific paradigm. It shakens the foundation of scientific paradigm, therefore they all say it's false science and this and that. But if we can even scientifically prove that it works, that there is some real proofs that astrology works, that in itself will be great preaching. Because it will shake the very foundation of modern science, which cannot allow this to happen, more or less. But there are so many other ways to do it, depending on your inclination and your particular interest in this. I know little astrology myself, so I think it's a very important science. And especially, you know, the most practical branch of astrology is this electoral astrology, or mukhurta, what moments of time are suitable for different activities. So if common people have some basic knowledge of this electoral astrology, it can solve many problems for different specific areas like begetting children, but not only, not limited to this. Thank you, Maharaj. Maharaj, one last question, Maharaj, sorry. Yes. Hare Krishna Maharaj, please, this is my purposes. This is Sadhu Garangdas Maharaj. Sadhu Garangdas. So, my question is, Maharaj, this material science and the spiritual science. Material science is managed by the external energy and spiritual science is managed by the internal energy, both the energies of Krishna. How do we connect both these external and internal energies of Krishna? You cannot connect these two energies, they are different energies, But you can utilize external energy for the service of internal energy. And that's our practice. How to use, how to utilize the external energy in the service of internal energy. how to live in this world in such a way that not the spirit of enjoyment will be ignited in people, but the spirit of service. That's the whole point of spiritual science, how to use and apply the external energy in the service of internal. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And Maraj, many of you are asking, so Maraj, now if you allow us. Yeah. Yeah, let's. I just wanted to say that I started presenting this material in the most systematic and elaborate In Russian language, I'm planning to do it starting from September in English, doing some preliminary research according to this plan. So if you are interested in helping with this or in promoting this, I would be very happy to serve you in this way. So we are planning to launch this course sometime in September or maybe October, depending on my schedule. Yes, Maharaj. That would be great, Maharaj. Whatever help you need, Maharaj, and assistance from our side, we are ready to support Maharaj. Well, to answer the second part of the question, one has to be a very good astrologer. I don't claim to be one. So I cannot make this prediction, whether it ever be possible. But to answer the first part of the question, I would say that at least if we can get a part of scientific community on our side to be seriously interested in the paradigms of Krishna consciousness and starting doing research along these lines not necessarily becoming devotees in a classical term. But if some scientists would be really interested in taking this paradigm and trying to apply this paradigm, I think that would be a great success. If they can understand that this is a comprehensive worldview and very systematic paradigm, which can be much more successfully applied in different areas and try to do it using their resources, intellectual resources and even material resources. Like recently there was this Michael Levin from Boston who was speaking for, I think, Kunal. He invited him. So if such people who are anyway intuitively trying to find some explanation of the materialistic phenomena will try to apply this paradigm and try to see what happens, I think that would be a great success for our preaching. if such real scientists would get real interest in trying to apply it. That's how I would formulate it. And of course for that networking is very important. I'm very happy that you will be going to this conference in Spain, in Barcelona, yes? about consciousness. Yes. Thank you. Sure, yeah. So, there are many people who are kind of intuitively feel that there is something much more profound. Because they try to use other explanations, other paradigms. Like Michael Levin, he believes in Plato's ideas. Plato's ideas are good. They are definitely much better than the ideas of modern science, but they are halfway. They are not consistent with this totally spiritual worldview which is proposed by the Vedas. They try to get something here, something there to explain, But if they see that there is something already very profound and consistent proposed by our Acharyas, that would be great success. I would be very happy if I could see this at least by the end of my life. So, I am trying to do some research. I have collected data from about 2,500 researchers and scientists of our nation. And I have measured their spiritual intelligence. There are scales which can measure the spiritual intelligence. Wow. And then there are scales to measure the material values also. So, I have tried to measure the material values, the religiosity, spiritual intelligence, and then I am trying to make a structural model to see how it relates to each other and how it is behaving in different situations. So, hopefully I will be coming up with some model so as to have a, define the linkages between them. Very interesting. Very, very interesting. I am very happy that you are doing this. Prabhuji is a very senior scientist in Maharaj in DSIR. DSIR is Department of Scientific and Industrial Research. It's a government body which promotes industrial research basically. Yes, so it's a senior scientist. Very interesting. I'd be happy. We talked with Prem Kishore Prabhu that maybe we can have a face-to-face meeting by the end of Kartik, or at the very end after the Kartik, for two, three days in Govardhan to talk about all these ideas. That would be great, Maharaj. Whenever time permits you, we'll connect that time, and we'll fix the date. and that would be great for all the devotees of ISS Maharaj. Yeah, I'd be happy to interact with all of you. Thank you. Thank you Maharaj for your time and association, wonderful guidance. Thank you. Thank you very much. And again, I am very happy that you are doing this. And yeah, if I can be of some service, I would be even more happy. Thank you. Thank you, Maharaj.